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Thread: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

  1. #81
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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    yeah, not the worst possible decision, but this punt is somewhat incompatible with the other ruling. gays are warranted equal protection under the law, but states can still decide to deny essential civil rights via another channel? does not compute.

    what will result is more states putting anti-gay language into their constitutions. then in five years, there will be a more complete decision overruling the denial of civil rights to gays in these states. what's sad is that they could have just done that today; they just delayed the inevitable.
    Yeah, it just delays the inevitable. The DOMA ruling gives way to a broad ruling, if the standing in this case was on better grounds, we'd be having an even better day.
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    Re: DOMA unconstitutional. 5-4 decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I agree. Eventually homosexual marriages will be legitimate in all the states but I agree with Sotomayor's position on this - that it is something the states must do at the state level in order to make it something everyone will eventually accept.
    Well, the states are entitled to be as different as they want to be, so long as there isn't an overriding federal law limiting that ability, which as we've seen the past, the feds ignore the 10th amendment.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    If a state passes a law allowing gay marriage, the federal government does not have the constitutional authority to invalidate that recognition. DOMA does that. Scalia will go out of his way to take a big government position on gay marriage because he has the ideological consistency of a grapefruit.
    DOMA didn't invalidate that recognition. It failed to extend it to federal facets only. Had DOMA sought to effect state level procedures, I think you would be correct, and this would be "big government".


    However, again, this ruling places the right to define marriage firmly with the States. Putting aside the Courts' willingness to interpose its' "sense of the nation" in lieu of actual law, I think it makes a "therefore the national government in the form of this Court must strike down State decisions if they happen to be ones we disagree with" argument more difficult.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy
    That's just liberal BS.
    There's a reason that this sort of remark doesn't belong in rigorous and reasonable debate. Let me show you why: your reply is just conservative (libertarian/green party/socialist/fascist/whatever) BS.

    I can type that sort of thing all day. So can you. So can anybody. It's cheap, it plays on people's prejudices and emotions, and doesn't add anything to the conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy
    Arbitrary was clearly the wrong word but there is no moral issue to it.
    I disagree. Acting to restrict what people can and cannot do implies an ought. If I restrict people from, say, owning monkeys, I am implying that people ought not to own monkeys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy
    The law was struck down for political reasons.
    No doubt. But that's irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy
    Gay couples weren't prohibited from marrying in the eyes of the federal government because they were discriminated against. They were prohibited from marrying in the eyes of the federal government because they just didn't meet the requirements any more than my single heterosexual son still doesn't.
    And why doesn't he? If he doesn't, there is an implied ought, and a moral dimension to the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy
    I don't have a problem with the legislature changing the requirements for marriage if there is a compelling reason to do so but to consistently do away with law because liberal groups are just afforded special protections is getting silly and it's just bad policy.
    I'm curious how you'd support this point. It seems that you're saying that the law was struck down purely to grant uneven privileges to liberal groups. If that's your point, I'd like to see how you argue for it. If it isn't, please clarify.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    The prop 8 ruling, from my limited reading, seems a strange mix of increasing the power of the states at the expense of the CITIZENS, not the federal government as is usually the case. Essentially, and I may be reading this wrong, it seems to be suggesting that if a referendum is passed that the state government doesn't like and the new law is found to be "unconstituional" by a lower level court then that's the end of it. Citizens have no further recourse to appeal the courts ruling without somehow showing that not enforcing their justly voted for law directly harms them.

    I'm honestly unsure how I really feel about that. In general, I am in favor of state rights...but this is generally at the expense of the federal government. The notion of referendums is there specifically for rare instances where the elected figures are so far out of line with the desires of the population in a particular form that the population rises up to speak themselves. Allowing only a single level of judicial challenge being needed to overturn the will of the people in a general sense seems to be a somewhat questionable action.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    But if someone from the states that has a ban on SSM sues their states(which I'm assuming is already being planned ), or if someone is married in one state that allows, and moves to one that bans, and sues, it bodes well for a broad ruling that will make SSM the law of the land.
    Sure. But what you just said, and what I commented on, are entirely different things

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    As asked/answered on SCOTUSblog, anyone with a state recognized marriage can file joint federal tax forms. Not sure what % of additional tax forms would apply to this, but it should reduce the tax burden.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Eventually, America gets it right. Despite those who oppose individual liberty, eventually we somehow arrive.

    We seen them opposing the rights of women to vote. They lost.

    We seen them opposing civil and voting rights to African Americans. They lost.

    We seen them burning Beatle records and cursing rock and roll as devil music. They lost.

    They will continue to lose because that's what losers do. Lose.

    Congratulations America. Good to see the quest for freedom is still alive and well in our nation.

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    Re: DOMA unconstitutional. 5-4 decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Homosexuals always had the same equal protections anyone else had.
    You are just plain and simply wrong. That SHOULD be the case, but it hasn't been, which is why the SCOTUS recognized such in this ruling. It is the first nail in the coffin of nationwide discrimination...but it will rapidly continue in the movement toward liberty and justice for all. This decision essentially says that discrimination against gays is wrong. Unless there is an idealogical change in the balance of the Supreme Court over the next years (which is highly unlikely....Thank you God and President Obama)....state laws limiting marriage to straights only are pretty much DOA.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Not morally.
    Morals are subjective. You have your morals, the rest of us have ours. Yours are no better than anyone else's.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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