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Thread: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

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    SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Most of these bans were in place before the major fights even started. Don't try it. You can't claim that they were "bullied" into this. It simply isn't true. The states took this position because of disapproval of homosexuality, not because many just didn't want to share the word marriage.
    I didn't say they were bullied into it but I'm saying you are pushing people that direction. I've been pushed off the fence. I was actually convinced it was about rights. Only in the last month or so have I been harangued to the point where is support an all out ban on civil unions, gay marriage or anything resembling it. If I'm going to be accused of being a hating bigot then I've got nothing to lose by acting like one. And I've been accused of hate a few times too many merely for arguing that civil unions are a reasonable solution. Screw it. You want a culture war. Then so it is and you pushed me to the other side of it.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    Offering civil unions? States that didn't have same sex marriage and had constitutional amendments against same sex marriage then went on to outlaw civil unions too.

    Who is offering civil unions?
    In recent polls there was widespread support for civil unions but a lot less for marriage. If homosexuals haven't been rejecting civil unions for the same of suing for marriage I think that they would be in place in all 50 States very quickly.

    I would have supported them. I probably will not going forward. Maybe I'll change my mind if the rhetoric lightens but I'll have to see. Suffice to say that the meme of the sympathetic poor homosexuals deprived of rights has been replaced with militant homosexuals giving this country the finger.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: DOMA unconstitutional. 5-4 decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    I disagree. I think government should get their hands out of marriage altogether.
    Because as we know, when we let states decide civil rights - discrimination is fine.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    In recent polls there was widespread support for civil unions but a lot less for marriage. If homosexuals haven't been rejecting civil unions for the same of suing for marriage I think that they would be in place in all 50 States very quickly.

    I would have supported them. I probably will not going forward. Maybe I'll change my mind if the rhetoric lightens but I'll have to see. Suffice to say that the meme of the sympathetic poor homosexuals deprived of rights has been replaced with militant homosexuals giving this country the finger.
    Do you have a link to those polls?
    Because the most recent I have seen is from 2012.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Remember Civil Unions? The Shifting Middle Way in the Same-sex Marriage Debate

    This graph show support for MARRIAGE growing, and support for civil unions shrinking along with those who want no legal recognition.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I didn't say they were bullied into it but I'm saying you are pushing people that direction. I've been pushed off the fence. I was actually convinced it was about rights. Only in the last month or so have I been harangued to the point where is support an all out ban on civil unions, gay marriage or anything resembling it. If I'm going to be accused of being a hating bigot then I've got nothing to lose by acting like one. And I've been accused of hate a few times too many merely for arguing that civil unions are a reasonable solution. Screw it. You want a culture war. Then so it is and you pushed me to the other side of it.
    This is blaming someone else for your position.

    But yes, you should have your own honor to lose by acting in such a way.

    I've been accused of a lot of things by anti-gay people, including being a pedophile, a pervert, a child molester, a monster, a hater, a bigot, a fag, a freak, someone not deserving of rights or to even live, that I'm going to burn in hell, that God hates me, and so many other things. But I don't hate the other side (although I despise many of the arguments being used). I even understand the positions of "I believe marriage is only between a man and woman", or "marriage is for procreation", or even "God thinks it's a sin". I don't agree with these positions and find them to be awful legal arguments for marriage restrictions, but I do understand how such beliefs develop and are held on to. These arguments, or arguments similar in nature to them, have always been used to justify limitations in laws that are just based on dislike of something or resistance to change.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    In recent polls there was widespread support for civil unions but a lot less for marriage. .
    What poll ?

    BS News/New York Times Poll. Feb. 8-13, 2012. N=1,197 adults nationwide. Margin of error 3.

    .

    "Which comes closest to your view? Gay couples should be allowed to legally marry. OR, Gay couples should be allowed to form civil unions but not legally marry. OR, There should be no legal recognition of a gay couple's relationship."

    .

    Legal
    marriage Civil unions No legal
    recognition Unsure
    % % % %
    2/8-13/12

    40 23 31 6

    Civil Rights

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    Except for the extreme homosexual activists who are contrary for political purposes, it is safe to say that anyone who supports same-sex marriage would also support a bill introducing civil unions with all the rights of marriage since it would be closer to their view than "no legal recognition". Counting all the people that support gay marriage and civil unions, there is overwhelming support for recognition. Counting only those who would accept nothing but gay marriage..... not so much. And that's the hand the homosexuals seem to want to force - gay marriage or nothing.

    Given that stance, I am now inclined to say "nothing". If it's a no compromise position for them, why should anyone else be more compromising?

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Except for the extreme homosexual activists who are contrary for political purposes, it is safe to say that anyone who supports same-sex marriage would also support a bill introducing civil unions with all the rights of marriage since it would be closer to their view than "no legal recognition". Counting all the people that support gay marriage and civil unions, there is overwhelming support for recognition. Counting only those who would accept nothing but gay marriage..... not so much. And that's the hand the homosexuals seem to want to force - gay marriage or nothing.

    Given that stance, I am now inclined to say "nothing". If it's a no compromise position for them, why should anyone else be more compromising?
    The poll shows you that your claims are incorrect. More people approve of same sex MARRIAGE, and a decreasing number approve of civil unions.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

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