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Thread: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

  1. #661
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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Not so much. In the grand scheme of acceptance of social issues....acceptance/opposition fluctuates. As it has with SSM.
    Not true. Some issues do fluctuate, many do not. SSM has not fluctuated, and acceptance has been going in only one direction.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Really, not these types? It appears that at different points in history, SSM was deemed perfectly acceptable, then it wasn't, then it was...
    In different societies, with different types of governments and a different culture. It requires a major cultural shift to change it, and it isn't so much a shift in public opinion, but a shift in power forcing people to change whether they want to or not. You are describing power shifts/changes to laws forcing public opinion shifts, not public opinion shifts changing the laws.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    That's exactly what I just said, it's also what I said last year.

    Where is Mitt Romney?
    He had an excellent opportunity and wasted it.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    He had an excellent opportunity and wasted it.



    He certainly did.

    BTW - I would consider voting for Christie, he's a great guy.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Not true. Some issues do fluctuate, many do not. SSM has not fluctuated, and acceptance has been going in only one direction.
    Attitudes on SSM have certainly fluctuated for and against throughout history.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    In different societies, with different types of governments and a different culture. It requires a major cultural shift to change it, and it isn't so much a shift in public opinion, but a shift in power forcing people to change whether they want to or not. You are describing power shifts/changes to laws forcing public opinion shifts, not public opinion shifts changing the laws.
    What I am describing is historical shifts in attitudes.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    What I am describing is historical shifts in attitudes.
    You can't compare different cultures and claim there was shift. They were different cultures. The major shift in the culture to distinguish it from another in itself is going to be such a big influence that it causes problems in the comparison. It would be much more difficult now for a single person or small group to gain enough power over a nation now to cause such a huge shift in culture that leads to less acceptance.

    You must look at the reason for when changes occur and why exactly they will occur to determine if they are likely to occur for us. From what we know, homosexuality is only going to become more accepted in our culture unless some huge cultural shift itself occurs, making more people convert to a religion that discriminates against homosexuals/same sex relationships.

    Along with this, over time, it has been shown that people, as a group, tend to age comparable to how a person ages. It is like our species, the older it gets, the wiser it gets. The more it learns to think for itself. The more knowledge we acquire, the less willing we are to maintain old prejudices. We learn what makes us different. We connect more with those who are different and discover that those differences aren't all that important. These things are taught to our children.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by yobarnacle View Post
    "My argument is, what happens, has ALWAYS happened, to societies that DID and WHEN it accepted homosexuality. "
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____

    "And that's an appeal to tradition logical fallacy which doesn't pass the logic test."

    Logic test? It's history. What logic test?

    I've given you a couple of studies, and there are at least dozens, showing symptoms shared by societies in decline, failing, falling.

    History has been studied longer than psychology!
    Do you know what the appeal to tradition logical fallacy is? Here... let me show you:

    Argumentum ad antiquitatem (the argument to antiquity or tradition). This is the familiar argument that some policy, behavior, or practice is right or acceptable because "it's always been done that way."
    What that means is this. If you try to say, "well, it's always been that way, so that means it's right", you have committed the fallacy and your point is both illogical and irrelevant. In order to prove that something that has always been is correct, you actually have to prove that it is STILL correct. Since you cannot do that, your point is illogical and refuted.

    And psychology has been around as long as history.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by yobarnacle View Post
    Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now.”
    ― Arnold Joseph Toynbee


    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.”
    ― Arnold Joseph Toynbee

    The British historian Arnold Joseph Toynbee was born in London on 14 April 1889 and died on 22 October 1975 in York, North Yorkshire, England. He was educated at Winchester College and Balliol College, Oxford. He was the nephew of economic historian Arnold Toynbee, with whom he is sometimes confused. His first marriage to Rosalind Murray, with whom he had three sons, ended in divorce in 1946. Professor Toynbee then married Veronica M. Boulter, his research assistant.
    From 1919 to 1924 Arnold J. Toynbee was professor of modern Greek and Byzantine history at King's College, London. From 1925 until 1955 Professor Toynbee served as research professor and Director of Studies at the Royal Institute of International Affairs.

    Arnold Joseph Toynbee (Author of A Study of History, Abridgement of Vols 1-6)

    Arnold Toynbee's A Study of History has been acknowledged as one of the greatest achievements of modern scholarship. A ten-volume analysis of the rise and fall of human civilizations, it is a work of breath-taking breadth and vision.
    No research and none of this applies to current conditions. Appeal to tradition logical fallacy.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah... I"m not so sure you can simultaneously lean on the validity and power of a majority opinion while also celebrating the effective annulment of Prop 8....
    Actually I can since the numbers show that support is growing every year and with each younger age group.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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