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Thread: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

  1. #371
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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    SO SO SO excited for this to happen. My cousin is one step closer to being able to marry her girlfriend

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well sure, but that is why there is no argument that applies to gay marriage that doesn't apply to polygamy.

    Another point that can be argued now is whether laws banning gay relatives from marrying is unconstitutional. The laws that forbid family from marrying were grounded in the state's real concern of the high rate of genetic illness in children born of siblings or close relatives. But in a gay marriage that is no concern at all.

    I'm not failing in my evaluation. I am assuming they are no less likely to engage in polygamy than gay or heterosexual couples.
    Changing laws to accommodate same sex couples is only a change in the restriction. Changing laws to accommodate multiple spouses would take a complete overhaul of or at least affect our joint tax laws, our immigration laws pertaining to green cards/visas for spouses, our military dependent/spouse benefits, healthcare laws, qualifications for welfare/government assistance, housing laws, personal contracts covered by marriage, and more. These laws all operate the same for married couples, whether the spouses are a man and a woman, two men, or two women.

    You mentioned bisexuals specifically. Since they are no more likely to want to be in a polygamous relationship than heterosexuals or homosexuals, then there would be no reason to single them out unless you have a misunderstanding of what being bisexual means.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Yeah, it's a good day for sure.

    I also tend to think that since since Kennedy, and Sotomayor sided with the dissenters because they wanted a more broad ruling, and didn't want to turn the case away.
    Certainly, their ruling in the DOMA case suggests support for that interpretation. Given the growing gap between younger cohorts who are better informed on the issue and who comprise a growing share of the population and older cohorts who represent a shrinking share of the population, a breakthrough is likely down the road. Younger cohorts recognize that homosexuality is not a disorder, birth defect, lifestyle choice, or abnormality. They find arguments along those lines based on fear or lack of understanding unpersuasive, as those arguments are not supported by credible data. Consequently, they view the issue of equal protection as it relates to marriage as a matter of civil rights that belong to all persons.

    The political landscape is shifting on account of the demographic evolution. As a result, the position against marriage equality is becoming increasingly unsustainable. The retreating anti-equality elements are loudly objecting, but their objections are increasingly viewed as serving no legitimate interest. It would have been nice to have had a sweeping Brown v. Board of Education-type outcome, but today's rulings mark meaningful progress. Barring some radical development that shifts the fundamental perspectives of the rising younger cohorts, that progress will very likely be sustained going forward.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 06-26-13 at 04:26 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    So you're saying that there hasn't been a hyper-liberalization of the country, usually to its detriment, in the past 40 years.

    Sure, sure. Go ahead and get me a tinfoil hat.
    Right now we have a better shot at undermining some of the arguments from the counter-culture Left of the 1960s and 1970s by encouraging strong marriages and two-parent family units. You didn't somehow think that this marriage institution was the same thing as those who were seeking to undermine social expectations entirely by questioning the entire concept of marriage and family structures, did you?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    If the criteria is that a restriction must be justified by a compelling state interest, then what is the compelling state interest for restricting marriage to two people? Why not a man and two women? Why not father and daughter as long as the father has a vasectomy or the woman has her tubes tied? The argument of gay marriage is, IN FACT, that their right to marry the person they love is being denied because the relationship doesn't fit the accepted model. Well, plural marriage and incest marriages also don't fit the model and their rights to marry the people they love are being similarly restricted.
    Oh that canard.

    There are social burdens involved in polygamy (the most obvious being creditors not knowing whom to collect from for marital debt). Further, we tried polygamy (remember the bible) and it didn't work well for other reasons -- the wealthy wound up with lots of wives and the poor wound up with none -- a very volatile and unstable situation, as China is now learning due to its lack of marriageable females.

    As to incest, it obviously lends itself it abusing children so that's reason enough to ban it.

    NEXT VAPID RIGHTWING MEME!

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Right now we have a better shot at undermining some of the arguments from the counter-culture Left of the 1960s and 1970s by encouraging strong marriages and two-parent family units. You didn't somehow think that this marriage institution was the same thing as those who were seeking to undermine social expectations entirely by questioning the entire concept of marriage and family structures, did you?
    I'm not questioning the concept of marriage. I'm questioning government's intervention into it - specifically with regard to tax benefits.

    If people want to get married in a religious ceremony for the purpose of...I dunno, whatever women want it for - I'm good with it. Celebration of love, own a man's balls, free gifts from a registry...whatever. That's fine.

    That is where it should end, however.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    So you're saying that there hasn't been a hyper-liberalization of the country, usually to its detriment, in the past 40 years.

    Sure, sure. Go ahead and get me a tinfoil hat.
    Define detriment.

    Do you think our society would be better off if we still treated women as second class citizens?
    Do you think our society would be better off if we treated non-Whites as second class citizens?
    Do you think our society would be better off if we gave people less control over their lives and bodies?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I'm not questioning the concept of marriage. I'm questioning government's intervention into it - specifically with regard to tax benefits.

    If people want to get married in a religious ceremony for the purpose of...I dunno, whatever women want it for - I'm good with it. Celebration of love, own a man's balls, free gifts from a registry...whatever. That's fine.

    That is where it should end, however.
    And of course, I stand opposed to some left-wingers and libertarians on this. I believe it in the interest of the country to encourage stability and healthy relationships via the government.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Define detriment.

    Do you think our society would be better off if we still treated women as second class citizens?
    Do you think our society would be better off if we treated non-Whites as second class citizens?
    Do you think our society would be better off if we gave people less control over their lives and bodies?
    You did read "40 years", right?

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    You did read "40 years", right?
    You do know what happened in the past "40 years" right?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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