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Thread: IRS targeting included liberal groups

  1. #41
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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Wouldn't a simplified tax code allow for a proper definition of Non-profits and how to handle them? The reason you want to be a non-profit is so that the donations are tax-deductible. That helps attain more donations. I assume you knew that, but I stated it anyways. Back to where I was going. Defining who is non-profit clearly and succinctly would not allow for a "rogue" agent to make their own determination.

    Progressive is a terrible search word. Agreed. But it is easy to filter through the mess.
    Ahhhh, but non-profit status encompasses more than just charitable groups. Donations to 501c3 groups are tax deductible, but donations to 501c4 groups aren't.

    And I think the problem is actually kind of complex. 501c4 status is kind of a needed one, but a hard one to define. Traditionally it's where you'd put something like a cycling group. A cycling group open to everyone isn't exactly a charity so donations shouldn't be tax deductible. This makes sense, because otherwise it would allow people to set up these groups to make their hobbies tax deductible. On the other hand, a cycling group isn't a for profit venture and shouldn't be treated like a business.

    Now, say there's a dangerous street in a neighbourhood. Would it be wrong for that cycling group to raise awareness of the danger? Why shouldn't they be able to lobby their local representative? What if one politician supports a bike lane on that street, should the group be barred from supporting it?

    Before Citizens United, this really wasn't an issue. A 501c4 that wanted to run adds would have to run them out of a separate account with disclosed donors. So there was no advantage to file as a 501c4 instead of a 527. Some 501c4's engaged in some political activity, but it wasn't all that significant.

    Citizens United changed all of this. It allowed organizations to use general funds for political activities instead of specially segregated funds with disclosed donors. Suddenly there was a huge advantage to falsely file as a 501c4.

  2. #42
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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    These are results of the IRS investigating itself so I am highly suspicious of their findings. I think there will be some clarification of this claim coming soon.
    I agree with all except the "coming soon" part.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #43
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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Democrat demands answers from Bush-appointee over ‘flawed’ IRS audit | The Raw Story
    Rep. Sander Levin (D-MI), a ranking member of the House Ways and Means Committee, has called for a congressional hearing into the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration.

    J. Russell George, who was appointed by President George W. Bush in 2004, conducted an audit of the IRS that concluded the federal agency had used “inappropriate criteria” to target tea party groups.

    However, Levin revealed Monday that the same “inappropriate criteria” appeared to have been used to target progressive groups — and continued to be used after it had stopped being used for tea party groups.


    “Please describe in detail why your report dated May 14, 2013 omitted the fact that ‘Progressives’ was used,” Levin wrote in a letter to George.

    “The American public expects competent, impartial, unbiased, and non-political treatment from the IRS,” the Congressman concluded. “The same standard is also applicable to you and your organization. Your audit served as the basis and impetus for a wide range of Congressional investigations and this new information shows that the foundation of those investigations is flawed in a fundamental way.”

    The audit stated the IRS was wrong to use “Be On the Look Out” (BOLO) memos to target tea party groups. But at least seven BOLO memos used by IRS agents included the word “progressive,” a fact that was completely omitted from George’s audit.
    I have no problem with that not being included in the audit, because the audit was tasked with determining if conservative groups were subjected to political targeting. The audit concluded that there was inappropriate criteria, but that no politically biased targeting had occurred.

    What happened after was a trainwreck. The IRS story was dumped by IRS officials to make it appear as if it were a scandal. Republican investigators selectively released testimony to back up this story. This should be investigated. I expect government oversight to act professionally and to provide the most accurate representation of their findings. If you want a special prosecutor, they should look into this.

  4. #44
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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    That was a lie Redress.

    The recent claim Progressives were targeted.

    The word " progressive " might have been added to the list but staffers were told to pass them through for approval while Tea Party Orginizations were held back for more " scrutiny".

    Maybe you could name. Progressive group that was denied ?

    So that aside, if the targeting was more wide spread why did Lois Lerner lie and say it was just rogue agents in Cinci ?

    Why did she plead the Fifth ?

    The IRS just told you the targeting lasted longer and was more wide spread but they cant find evidence of worng doing.

    Do you guys like being lied to ?
    Speaking of lies. Could you name a "tea party" group that was denied?
    As far as pleading the 5th, if you were an American you would know that does not imply guilt.

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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Democrat demands answers from Bush-appointee over ‘flawed’ IRS audit | The Raw Story

    Rep. Sander Levin (D-MI), a ranking member of the House Ways and Means Committee, has called for a congressional hearing into the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration.

    J. Russell George, who was appointed by President George W. Bush in 2004, conducted an audit of the IRS that concluded the federal agency had used “inappropriate criteria” to target tea party groups.

    However, Levin revealed Monday that the same “inappropriate criteria” appeared to have been used to target progressive groups — and continued to be used after it had stopped being used for tea party groups.


    “Please describe in detail why your report dated May 14, 2013 omitted the fact that ‘Progressives’ was used,” Levin wrote in a letter to George.

    “The American public expects competent, impartial, unbiased, and non-political treatment from the IRS,” the Congressman concluded. “The same standard is also applicable to you and your organization. Your audit served as the basis and impetus for a wide range of Congressional investigations and this new information shows that the foundation of those investigations is flawed in a fundamental way.”

    The audit stated the IRS was wrong to use “Be On the Look Out” (BOLO) memos to target tea party groups. But at least seven BOLO memos used by IRS agents included the word “progressive,” a fact that was completely omitted from George’s audit.
    Name one Progressive group that was refused it tax status.

    Your Bush blame is pathetic.

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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Speaking of lies. Could you name a "tea party" group that was denied?

    As far as pleading the 5th, if you were an American you would know that does not imply guilt.
    You can start with the four that spoke in front of the oversight Comittee and go from there.

    One of course, the Defense for Marriage group that had its donor list leaked.

    Anyway, name a Progressive group that was denied its tax status.

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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Your Bush blame is pathetic.
    And you are blaming people of an incapacity for rational thought? George here is in reference to J. Russell George. Not George Bush. Way to read into things that you want or expect to hear rather than what is actually being communicated

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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    You can start with the four that spoke in front of the oversight Comittee and go from there.

    One of course, the Defense for Marriage group that had its donor list leaked.

    Anyway, name a Progressive group that was denied its tax status.
    Not one group was denied only delayed. There is a difference.

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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Speaking of lies. Could you name a "tea party" group that was denied?
    As far as pleading the 5th, if you were an American you would know that does not imply guilt.
    Do you know something the IRS doesn't? The IRS has acknowledged "inappropriate" targeting of conservative political groups during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status. They admit it!

    Even Lois Lerner, before she took the Fifth, said IRS agents singled out dozens of organizations for additional reviews because they included the words "tea party" or "patriot" in their exemption applications. Lerner also said that in some cases groups were asked for lists of donors, which violates IRS policy in most cases.

    Why involve yourself in the debate if you don't know the facts?

  10. #50
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    Re: IRS targeting included liberal groups

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Speaking of lies. Could you name a "tea party" group that was denied?
    As far as pleading the 5th, if you were an American you would know that does not imply guilt.
    they didn't deny them because then the Tea Party groups could appeal the decision and the IRS would have been required to give a reason for the denial they would have had to turn over their paper work. instead they put them in limbo for over 2 year and counting. while progressive groups got their approval in 9 months

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