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Supreme Court punts on affirmative action case

polgara said:
Good afternoon, ocean515. :2wave:

I'm not certain what's going on here, but it sounds like the dumbing-down in education has run into the brick wall of unwanted results! So can we expect that college courses will be made easier to complete, so no one's feelings are hurt? Sort of like giving every kid a trophy and a box of juice when they compete in sports? :shock:
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No the opposite is happening. UH raised its standards again. Now you cant even graduate with lower than 3.2. So her 3.5 is barely acceptable.
 
captainawesome said:
I am being logical.

You make an accusation. She had average grades and didnt get into a competitive school. I see no reason to think it was about race.
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In this case, I don't see much of an argument. You're right - her grades and scores were not of a caliber that justifies a spot in a competitive or prestigious institution.

However, I have heard and seen of many cases where the minority with noticeably inferior scores getting a place that was refused a white applicant that was more qualified.
 
Gipper said:
In this case, I don't see much of an argument. You're right - her grades and scores were not of a caliber that justifies a spot in a competitive or prestigious institution.

However, I have heard and seen of many cases where the minority with noticeably inferior scores getting a place that was refused a white applicant that was more qualified.
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I hear stories too, but like this one they dont seem to pan out.
 
They actually did decide the case, but found a way to do it without setting precedence. They kicked it to the lower court with a warning for the lower court to be more strict on judging admissions policies that use race. Universities will have a much tougher time getting policies that use race as a factor past the courts any more. So the decision effectively ends AA without making the outright statement.
 
captainawesome said:
I hear stories too, but like this one they dont seem to pan out.
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This one is different, unless minorities with even worse scores than these are getting in.

If she had a 3.8 and a 1400 SAT, we'd be visiting this from a different vantage point...or at least I would be.
 
polgara said:
Good afternoon, ocean515. :2wave:

I'm not certain what's going on here, but it sounds like the dumbing-down in education has run into the brick wall of unwanted results! So can we expect that college courses will be made easier to complete, so no one's feelings are hurt? Sort of like giving every kid a trophy and a box of juice when they compete in sports? :shock:
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Hi Polgara :2wave:

Hope your healing continues on track.

I'm leaning towards your take (and concern). As I wrote, the elephant in the room is not so much the diversity in admissions, it's the carry through to graduation. Personally, I am appauled by the manipulation of these students with the false promises made to them about college.

Imagine what happens to the person who takes on a student loan, enters college, and discovers they don't have the knowledge and skills to meet the requirements to advance. For many that means taking remedial classes just to get the the level of knowledge needed to take freshman level courses.

The drop out rate for these student is almost impossible to obtain, although it's been getting better of late. To save face, activists are pushing for changes to the advancement and graduation requirements so these "diversity" students can move on, despite the fact they were unable to complete the requirements of their major.

I find this insulting and extremely damaging to the graduates, who will soon discover they are no more prepared for a working career than the were for a college career when they first entered.
 
rocket88 said:
If they've got a bunch of students with equal qualifications, they may not have the room to accept them all. If there's 10 openings left, and 15 students with equal qualifications....well, how're you gonna pick? Random? But how do you know you don't get sued by the ones that lost out in the random draw?
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I'd pick them based on the order in which their applications were submitted and/or landed on my desk.

rocket88 said:
If there were other variables, then what is the court supposed to do?
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Issue a direct ruling on Affirmative Action itself.
 
nota bene said:
The Black Awareness Committee at A&M was created in 1970: Building Leaders, Living Traditions: The Memorial Student Center at Texas A ... - Amy L. Bacon - Google Books
In 1976 Fred McClure became the first African-American student body president:

In Fulfillment of a Dream - African-Americans at Texas A&M University
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Yeah, right, like the A&M archives is the best place for accuracy... I was there, I assure there weren't 25 black students at A&M proper, (there was of course A&M Prairieview as mentioned previously) except for those in uniform or those in sports for the entire 4 years I was there. Was I in every class in every bldg at every moment, no. But through a regular 5 year accounting program, which I did not complete the last year, not more than 25 as non-uni'd, non-sports, non-laborer did I see in classes, or on campus, or a Dudley's Draw, or at Dixie Chicken, or the bowling alley, or the mess hall, or the student union.
All the reports in the world, won't change what I saw with my own eyes.
 
captainawesome said:
No the opposite is happening. UH raised its standards again. Now you cant even graduate with lower than 3.2. So her 3.5 is barely acceptable.
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Good afternoon, captainawesome. :2wave:

I can hardly wait to see the charges of discrimination that will doubtless be forthcoming! :eek:
 
polgara said:
Good afternoon, captainawesome. :2wave:

I can hardly wait to see the charges of discrimination that will doubtless be forthcoming! :eek:
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There wont be. UH is already the most diverse university in the Nation. This is with ever higher standards.
 
Summerwind said:
Yeah, right, like the A&M archives is the best place for accuracy... I was there, I assure there weren't 25 black students at A&M proper, (there was of course A&M Prairieview as mentioned previously) except for those in uniform or those in sports for the entire 4 years I was there. Was I in every class in every bldg at every moment, no. But through a regular 5 year accounting program, which I did not complete the last year, not more than 25 as non-uni'd, non-sports, non-laborer did I see in classes, or on campus, or a Dudley's Draw, or at Dixie Chicken, or the bowling alley, or the mess hall, or the student union.
All the reports in the world, won't change what I saw with my own eyes.
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You aren't seriously suggesting that the university's archives are inaccurate, are you? If you are, I'd appreciate your directing me to a more reliable source.

In the meantime, here'a photo, and I count 23 three heads right there (notice the hair styles--clearly not "military"): Black Awareness Committee
 
Texmex said:
I believe you say this because you know that when the playing field is level, even fewer blacks will be admitted. It is sad when one race cannot compete without being given an advantage they did not earn.
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Actually, the playing field level would be having a single standardized teaching system under which to give standardized tests. As we don't, there's no point in standardized testing.
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
The standard is a person's knowledge and what they know. May I ask your solution to standardized testing?
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You can only implement standardized testing under a standardized teaching system. As we have 50 different school systems, subdivided by their particular counties, there's no point in standardized testing.
 
Hatuey said:
Actually, the playing field level would be having a single standardized teaching system under which to give standardized tests. As we don't, there's no point in standardized testing.
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That would be a disaster. I think that 1+1=? has the same correct answer everywhere, but national testing doesn't have much utility outside the world of math........
 
Hatuey said:
You can only implement standardized testing under a standardized teaching system. As we have 50 different school systems, subdivided by their particular counties, there's no point in standardized testing.
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Sure there is. A teenager can teach themselves things, too, you know. You can also test that. Just because calculus, physics, etc. may not be a part of his state's or county's curricula, doesn't mean the student shouldn't be tested on it, perhaps the student taught his- or herself calculus, physics, etc. ;shrug:
 
Khayembii Communique said:
As I'm looking to get a post-graduate degree, I'm genuinely curious if my "white" appearance would be taken into account upon meeting in person, and how that would affect my application, if I actually checked a "minority" box on the application. This article claims that I would be "entitled to self-identify any race and the University [would] not ever question that determination". But do we really think that's true? If that is the case, then what is the point of even considering race, and what is preventing everyone from self-identifying as a minority in order to get the URM bump?
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Oh, these rumblings of the white Neocons~!!

PS I know your political background. Just giving you a bit of the piss. Good luck with grad school
 
LowDown said:
You've side stepped the most important consideration of all, which is if she had applied with that SAT and those grades as a black or latino would she have gained admission? I'm guessing that she'd have been a shoe in. GPA = 3.59 and SAT = 1180 and she was "inadmissable regardless of race"? Bull****. People who believe that have got no right to talk about ostriches with their heads in the sand.
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You're guessing. It's a competitive school and that's not a good SAT score. "Shoe in" my ass. But you can play hypothetical race cards all you want if it makes you feel better.

Ginsburg's comment wasn't regarding the student. It was regarding the systems in place.
 
captainawesome said:
They live in cities.
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so nothing is keeping them from living in rural areas correct?

Im asking all these questions to try to fond out how is discriminating by location is also discriminating by race when you can change your location

there are many programs that benefit inner city and not rural areas are they also discriminating by race
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
This is an academic environment, so I'd go with the academics over some extra-curriculars.
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I wouldn't say that necessarily. If your looking at an A- student who was in a couple of clubs versus a B student who was President of a couple of clubs and on a sports team, I'd take the B student over the A-.
 
Poor showing Supreme court
 
Napoleon said:
I'd pick them based on the order in which their applications were submitted and/or landed on my desk.
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How is that fair?



Issue a direct ruling on Affirmative Action itself.
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They don't do that. They rarely issue a direct ruling on an issue, rather deciding a particular case. One of the few examples of the Court going beyond the case to rule on the issue is the Dred Scott decision, and that one didn't exactly work out well.
 
trfjr said:
so nothing is keeping them from living in rural areas correct?
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There's not exactly a glut of cheap housing in rural areas. Other than that it's a great solution, why don't they just move? :roll:
 
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