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U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

fmw said:
No, that's the government at work. The people had no intention of being spied upon by the government. The people we voted into office would be criminals in any other environment.
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Good grief. lol
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Caught doing what? A legal security measure authorized by basically the entirety of the people that we voted into office. That's democracy at work.
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Democracy at work is electing the individual who represents you best. The problem comes into play when those who run for office represents nobody and you are left either voting for the guy you hate the least or not voting at all. For some it means voting for the best slogan that fits their ideological mood of the world. For others it means actually believing what they are voting for. The jokes on the voter.
 
Red_Dave said:
Pffft! rule of law is so last millennia !
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Was it last millennia? Rule of Law has always been an idea that covers what is actually going on. Talking about the "Rule of Law" is like preaching about a "Free Market." They both work fine on the surface and in the general mood of things. But underneath both are strings that are pulled in all directions.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Caught doing what? A legal security measure authorized by basically the entirety of the people that we voted into office. That's democracy at work.
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All I can figure is that the gov't of the USA sticks an electric prod up the anus of some forum writers and gives a few shots until the right words are typed. Others are paid to do the right words. I was curious if you've noticed this phenomena and have fingered anyone?
 
MSgt said:
The Obama-Biden Plan.....

"Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism, which can sometimes save lives and often save taxpayer dollars, should be encouraged rather than stifled. We need to empower federal employees as watchdogs of wrongdoing and partners in performance. Barack Obama will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government. Obama will ensure that federal agencies expedite the process for reviewing whistleblower claims and whistleblowers have full access to courts and due process."

If only Snowden had done this under Bush. Then he would have Obama in his corner.

Mr. "Hope and Change" continues to prove to his faithful what a bunch of saps they were and how very much like the rest of the garbage he is. This is far from the first whistleblower under Obama that has been on the run. Don't get me wrong. I voted for him last year, but not because of some Leftist utopian dream of a perfect world after Bush. I saw that he had grown from the starry eyed visionary, apologizing all over Europe, receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, and spouting utopia, to the guy of today who deals with a decrepit world. The problem was and is that the rest of the world won't allow a utopia or an America that wants to clean its hands of its filth.

Despite his overwhelming naiveté and some bull ****, Obama discovered the world when he entered the White House. At least McCain knew the world he was going to get. It would appear that 5 years later, Obama understands it now too. Spy networks, phone tapping, invading sovereign territory, GITMO, prosecuting whistleblowers.....what was the tag line? Oh yeah......"A vote for McCain is a vote for Bush."

China called us the greatest villain of all since this made news. If only Obama just took out a dictator.
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The problem goes much deeper until the idea of National Security itself is becoming ridiculous.

A Blizzard of Snowdens | National Review Online
 
DaveFagan said:
All I can figure is that the gov't of the USA sticks an electric prod up the anus of some forum writers and gives a few shots until the right words are typed. Others are paid to do the right words. I was curious if you've noticed this phenomena and have fingered anyone?
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Yeah, actually. I think they planted you in here to make any valid criticism of them look like a joke.

"Let's put a guy in there that makes zero sense and have him have an issue with everything we do. No one will take him seriously because he's obviously insane, so people will start to associate any criticism with this laughable psycho."

I think it's working, the team of operatives working round the clock to play the role of DaveFagan are doing an excellent job.
 
fmw said:
They got caught spying on the people. It isn't democracy at work. It is the government at work. The people had no intention of being spied upon by the government. The people we voted into office would be criminals in any other environment.
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It's a nice sentiment, but in the end voters were and are just too stupid for the task if they actually thought "Hope and Change" meant anything more than what the world was going to allow. Perhaps Adams and Jefferson were right. Democracy should involve an aristocracy of the educated who hold the nation's interests at heart and teaches Americans on the virtues of liberty and freedom. Left to common voters, every ignorant soul in the country will merely think of his own selfish idea of things and only his immediate surroundings. Whens the last time the Lower, Middle, or Upper Class voted to raise taxes as they whine and bitch about the deficit and potholes?

Hope and Change. What the hell did that even ever mean?
 
Grant said:
The problem goes much deeper until the idea of National Security itself is becoming ridiculous.

A Blizzard of Snowdens | National Review Online
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Government is full of idiots, slackers, and morons. This is true for the civilian side and the military side. Some are going to cause trouble.

But whistleblowing is whistleblowing and Obama doesn't cotton to Bush making whistleblowers feel afraid. The best thing any Senator can do is to not be a douche. That way when he gets into the White House he doesn't have to be a super hypocrite. The funniest is the Nobel Peace Prize.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Folks.... let's stop the baiting and trolling or there will be consequences.
 
MSgt said:
Whoa...whoa.....let's keep this thread clean.
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have you fingered anyone? Simply translated from the common vernacular means have you "identified anyone" and what's wrong with that? Is your mind in the sewer?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Good grief. lol
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Beginning with GWBush, the first moron, who initiated this wholesale gov't spying, torture, rendition, lying, etc. Obama has continued the practices. Both these Presidents should be prosecuted for stomping on the Bill of Rights.
 
DaveFagan said:
Beginning with GWBush, the first moron, who initiated this wholesale gov't spying, torture, rendition, lying, etc. Obama has continued the practices. Both these Presidents should be prosecuted for stomping on the Bill of Rights.
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Nah, they're fine. Calm down.
 
DaveFagan said:
Beginning with GWBush, the first moron, who initiated this wholesale gov't spying, torture, rendition, lying, etc. Obama has continued the practices. Both these Presidents should be prosecuted for stomping on the Bill of Rights.
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The problem is that since "gov't spying, lying, torture" has been going on at least as far back as the creation of the CIA, no President is ever going to be prosecuted for it. Why do you think Obama urged the American people to look forward? It was to excuse the actions of his predecessors in order to preserve the ability for himself. The next will do it as well. Ford pardons Nixon, right? The only difference between Bush and the rest is that Bush was moron enough to parade it around.
 
Agree with everything the guy has done as an American myself. How terrible Snowden is.. He has soiled the "good" image of the intelligence community which is a nice way of saying the "We break every US Law there is every second of every Day Agency". How terrible the Politburo has been disgraced! Oh the agony!


It's a fitting irony that he will probably be sitting in Sochi or some other resort town with a few million Red dollars for the rest of his life and a gorgeous blonde on each hip for having done nothing truly wrong.

Good for him. I wish him a happy life. Really. I hope they treat him well. He is a good guy and has my respect.
 
MSgt said:
The problem is that since "gov't spying, lying, torture" has been going on at least as far back as the creation of the CIA, no President is ever going to be prosecuted for it. Why do you think Obama urged the American people to look forward? It was to excuse the actions of his predecessors in order to preserve the ability for himself. The next will do it as well. Ford pardons Nixon, right? The only difference between Bush and the rest is that Bush was moron enough to parade it around.
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Where are your links?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Nah, they're fine. Calm down.
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That's the problem. GWBush, the first torturer and Obama are just fine. It's the Bill of Rights that's not so fine. If your allegiance to your country is reflected by your attitude on the leaders, then truth, liberty, freedom, justice, human rights have become irrelevant, eh?
 
DaveFagan said:
That's the problem. GWBush, the first torturer and Obama are just fine. It's the Bill of Rights that's not so fine. If your allegiance to your country is reflected by your attitude on the leaders, then truth, liberty, freedom, justice, human rights have become irrelevant, eh?
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Yes...they have. Capitalism is God now. That which makes money is worth doing. "Truth, liberty, freedom, justice, human rights" and let me guess...The American Way? Superman's just a comic book character. This is the real world where most have figured out that those things are surface mantras that hide truths of nation building and protection.
 
Ryan5 said:
.......He is a good guy and has my respect.
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For all you know he is a closet pedophile. You may respect his action, but you hardly know if he is a good guy.
 
MSgt said:
Links that show the CIA to be Boy Scouts during the Cold War? Can you be this naïve?
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I thought you would show the links from El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Philipines, Vietnam, and all the other places we have delivered Corporate friendly dictatorships, or tried to. You know, just own up to some of our/cia scumbag operations.
 
MSgt said:
Links that show the CIA to be Boy Scouts during the Cold War? Can you be this naïve?
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I thought you would show the links from El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Philipines, Vietnam, and all the other places we have delivered Corporate friendly dictatorships, or tried to. You know, just own up to some of our/cia scumbag operations. Were we delivering freedoms, human rights, democracy, liberty, or constraining or eliminating all of them?
 
DaveFagan said:
I thought you would show the links from El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Philipines, Vietnam, and all the other places we have delivered Corporate friendly dictatorships, or tried to. You know, just own up to some of our/cia scumbag operations.
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Own up? Well I'm not in the CIA so there's nothing for me to own up to. Nor did I suggest that the "torture" started with Bush. You did that. I don't mind a little waterboarding for the faithful. And some people in this world simply need killing.
 
MSgt said:
Own up? Well I'm not in the CIA so there's nothing for me to own up to. Nor did I suggest that the "torture" started with Bush. You did that. I don't mind a little waterboarding for the faithful. And some people in this world simply need killing.
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"Own up," because what our gov't does is done in our name. That would be your name and mine and Grandma's.
 
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