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Thread: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I've spent a lot of time in Central America over the past 20 years and it's a very good thing the Communist dictatorships are gone. I'd hired a female architect at one point and her Nicaraguan parents had named her "America" in honor of the country that brought them democracy.

    The United States has done a lot of good things in this world and I'd hold there record up next to any other country.
    The US is not the problem. It's the corrupt US regime.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Why is Snowden a patriot and not Manning?
    Manning indiscriminately gave away a pile of secrets because he was dissatisfied with his service, the Army, and the war. He did it to punish the powers that be.

    Snowden exposed a secret program that appears, on the surface, very much like a constitutional affront. He did not do it to punish the government, nor to hurt US interests; he chose a specific journalist he trusted to put another set of eyes on the information before it went public, just to insure there wasn't something in there that could do indiscriminate damage. He did it on behalf of the American citizen.

    Manning tried to hurt, even if he thought his intentions (to stop the US from... whatever it was he was accusing it of) were pure. Snowden tried to help.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Beginning with GWBush, the first moron, who initiated this wholesale gov't spying, torture, rendition, lying, etc. Obama has continued the practices. Both these Presidents should be prosecuted for stomping on the Bill of Rights.
    Brief history of US Government spying on citizens.

    This goes back further then that. Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 were passed by a Federalist Congress during the Quasi-War with France. You couldn't criticize any federal official, except one.. the VP who at the time was Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was John Adams' bitter rival.

    1920s had the Cipher Bureau which read every telegraph message sent overseas. Western Union allowed the Government to do this.

    1941 Project SHAMROCK and Project MINARET started and lasted until 1975. It was because of these programs FISA courts were created.

    In 1978 FISA warrants began to be issued.. before G.W Bush was elected only 5 of 18,000 warrants were denied.

    These are just a few of programs ran.. NSA has a half dozen or so from ELECHON to Stellar Wind (Verizon & AT&T).
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    That's the problem. GWBush, the first torturer and Obama are just fine. It's the Bill of Rights that's not so fine. If your allegiance to your country is reflected by your attitude on the leaders, then truth, liberty, freedom, justice, human rights have become irrelevant, eh?
    Calm down, Dave. The sky isn't falling. I know you're scared, but it'll be just fine.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Manning indiscriminately gave away a pile of secrets because he was dissatisfied with his service, the Army, and the war. He did it to punish the powers that be.

    Snowden exposed a secret program that appears, on the surface, very much like a constitutional affront. He did not do it to punish the government, nor to hurt US interests; he chose a specific journalist he trusted to put another set of eyes on the information before it went public, just to insure there wasn't something in there that could do indiscriminate damage. He did it on behalf of the American citizen.

    Manning tried to hurt, even if he thought his intentions (to stop the US from... whatever it was he was accusing it of) were pure. Snowden tried to help.
    What about Snowden talking about operations against China? Is that heroic?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Calm down, Dave. The sky isn't falling. I know you're scared, but it'll be just fine.

    I'm as calm as the Sea of Tranquility where you must do your texting from. That lack of oxygen is obvious. That's why Snowden was listening to your phone calls, I guess.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I've spent a lot of time in Central America over the past 20 years and it's a very good thing the Communist dictatorships are gone. I'd hired a female architect at one point and her Nicaraguan parents had named her "America" in honor of the country that brought them democracy.

    The United States has done a lot of good things in this world and I'd hold there record up next to any other country. Don't believe all the rubbish people say about the country or the people.
    Your architect from is from Nicaragua, the country that Reagan/Bush terrorized. It's leader is Daniel Ortega, who was the leader of the Sandanistas that Reagan/Bush tried to kill. If anyone brought her freedom, it was Ortega, because we peddle oligarchical Dictatorships. We are collectively Americas, North and South and Central and Latin. The USA and Canada are also part of the Americas and neither is America.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Brief history of US Government spying on citizens.

    This goes back further then that. Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 were passed by a Federalist Congress during the Quasi-War with France. You couldn't criticize any federal official, except one.. the VP who at the time was Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was John Adams' bitter rival.

    1920s had the Cipher Bureau which read every telegraph message sent overseas. Western Union allowed the Government to do this.

    1941 Project SHAMROCK and Project MINARET started and lasted until 1975. It was because of these programs FISA courts were created.

    In 1978 FISA warrants began to be issued.. before G.W Bush was elected only 5 of 18,000 warrants were denied.

    These are just a few of programs ran.. NSA has a half dozen or so from ELECHON to Stellar Wind (Verizon & AT&T).
    Current problems are a direct result of the Patriot Act, not the historical rights that were more limited.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Who the f--- is "we" ? Please explain.
    We, as in we, the United States of America. I wouldn't split hairs here about the collective "we". Whether you agree with what the country is doing or not, if you're American, you're part of the collective "we". Distancing yourself from your government loses most significance at the water's edge.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I'm as calm as the Sea of Tranquility where you must do your texting from. That lack of oxygen is obvious. That's why Snowden was listening to your phone calls, I guess.
    Oh. Cause you seem to think the government is out to get you, which obviously isn't something a calm or rational person thinks.

    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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