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Thread: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

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    re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I admit to knowing nothing about Iceland's politics, but why would it consider taking Snowden in and possibly offering him citzenship?
    It's pretty sketchy, but maybe this will help. Snowden: Iceland Talks About Potential Asylum

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    re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    On the Espionage Act charges against Edward Snowden | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    The Obama administration leaks classified information continuously. They do it to glorify the President, or manipulate public opinion, or even to help produce a pre-election propaganda film about the Osama bin Laden raid. The Obama administration does not hate unauthorized leaks of classified information. They are more responsible for such leaks than anyone.

    What they hate are leaks that embarrass them or expose their wrongdoing. Those are the only kinds of leaks that are prosecuted. It's a completely one-sided and manipulative abuse of secrecy laws. It's all designed to ensure that the only information we as citizens can learn is what they want us to learn because it makes them look good. The only leaks they're interested in severely punishing are those that undermine them politically. The "enemy" they're seeking to keep ignorant with selective and excessive leak prosecutions are not The Terrorists or The Chinese Communists. It's the American people.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I admit to knowing nothing about Iceland's politics, but why would it consider taking Snowden in and possibly offering him citzenship?
    They're western European with typical western European attitudes toward the US.

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    re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    As I understand it, the extadition treaty with Hong Kong does not include "political" crimes - this would be considered one.

    Secondly, as I understand it, there are people in Iceland actively trying to secure the agreement of the government there to ensure Snowden is protected if he transfers there and that there is a private plane ready to fly him non-stop there and that the $300,000 to $500,000 cost of that flight is being covered by sympathizers in the US and other parts of the world.

    What the US is doing is not popular world-wide and in many parts of the US as well. In my view, this is a lose-lose situation for the administration.
    While I pretty much agree with your overall quote, I think the Administration is backed into a corner and doesn't have a choice. It wouldn't be good to simply let it go.
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    re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    From WaPo:

    Snowden was charged with theft, “unauthorized communication of national defense information” and “willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person,” according to the complaint. The last two charges were brought under the 1917 Espionage Act.

    The complaint, which initially was sealed, was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden’s former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered and a district with a long track record of prosecuting cases with national security implications. After The Washington Post reported the charges, senior administration officials said late Friday that the Justice Department was barraged with calls from lawmakers and reporters and decided to unseal the criminal complaint.

    U.S. charges Snowden with espionage - The Washington Post

    I haven't been following this case as closely as I perhaps should. The big question that I think I need to know to fully understand is, just what did Mr. Snowden disclose, and to whom did he disclose it?

    As far as I am aware, the entire flap is about him having publicly disclosed facts about our federal government spying on its own citizens. If that is all he did, then I do not see how this can possibly be construed as “espionage”. I would think that “espionage” would have to consist of disclosing secret information of a militarily-sensitive nature, to a potential enemy that could use that information against us.

    Certainly, our government has no authority to spy on us in the manner that Mr. Snowden alleged, and if our government is doing so, then we certainly have every right to know about it and to demand that it cease to do so at once. If that is all that Mr. Snowden disclosed, then he has done nothing wrong, and there is certainly no valid basis on which to accuse him of “espionage”. Indeed, as a witness to illegal activity, he certainly had not only a right, but a duty to bring this activity to light.

    What am I missing here? Is there something else that Mr. Snowden disclosed, which somehow falls under some legitimate national security interest?
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    re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    And in bizarre circumstances the patriot is kicking it in communist land after informing (or rather confirming) the people that the US government operating in authoritarian fashion... Now he can't come back and is stuck with communists who obviously want to know what he knows...

    This is the type of **** that happens when you expose this POS authoritarian government - you end up in China - The land where Mao is still held in extremely high regard with force and where Stalin is considered a comrade..

    1) He's not in China.. but Hong Kong.
    2) Hong Kong is "officially" part of China but given status like Puerto Rico.

    Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region (the other one is Macau). That means they have their own Government, money, legislative system, police, law, education, and postal system to name a few.. Hong Kong law is actually based of English law, like the US and Hong Kong has a bill of rights. Even the Chinese military stationed in Hong Kong has to adhere to Hong Kong law.
    Last edited by austrianecon; 06-23-13 at 03:04 AM.
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    re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    From WaPo:

    Snowden was charged with theft, “unauthorized communication of national defense information” and “willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person,” according to the complaint. The last two charges were brought under the 1917 Espionage Act.

    The complaint, which initially was sealed, was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden’s former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered and a district with a long track record of prosecuting cases with national security implications. After The Washington Post reported the charges, senior administration officials said late Friday that the Justice Department was barraged with calls from lawmakers and reporters and decided to unseal the criminal complaint.

    U.S. charges Snowden with espionage - The Washington Post
    I'm surprised they haven't apprehended him yet. They should make their move before he slips away, or he should just turn himself in. He said in his interview that he wasn't afraid, and that he fears for the safety of his family, but his actions are saying he's going to save himself; screw everyone else. He's not a hero, he's a coward.
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    re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    I'm surprised they haven't apprehended him yet. They should make their move before he slips away, or he should just turn himself in. He said in his interview that he wasn't afraid, and that he fears for the safety of his family, but his actions are saying he's going to save himself; screw everyone else. He's not a hero, he's a coward.
    What could he do for their safety if he stayed home and got picked up immediately, without a snowball's chance to tell his story? They pick him up, we forget about him in weeks.

    His family's greatest safety is sunlight.
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    re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    While I pretty much agree with your overall quote, I think the Administration is backed into a corner and doesn't have a choice. It wouldn't be good to simply let it go.
    I would agree, but if the disclosures are so harmful why is the administration now going all over the networks and disclosing all kinds of detail in public congressional hearings? I think we've learned more about the program out of the administration than from Snowden at this point. If it's so critically important wouldn't it be best for the administration to not comment on it and to insist that all congressional hearings be held in camera?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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