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Thread: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Caught doing what? A legal security measure authorized by basically the entirety of the people that we voted into office. That's democracy at work.
    Well, clearly if they thought the public would approve, then we have broken democracy. Democracy must be in working order for it to produce legitimate governance.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    ... While killing everyone else on board? That's not very moderate, in fact, that's down right extreme - something you'd hear Senator Lindsay Graham or former Vice President Dick Cheney say.
    There is a price to pay. Anyone else on the charter will be aware of who they are flying and who they are flying with.
    They are accessories.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    There is a price to pay. Anyone else on the charter will be aware of who they are flying and who they are flying with.
    They are accessories.
    You've got to be kidding? Because everyone in the world is aware of controversies in the U.S. or Edward Snowden. Give me a break.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    You've got to be kidding? Because everyone in the world is aware of controversies in the U.S. or Edward Snowden. Give me a break.
    He may be a hero to you, but any right thinking American know you dont sell or give national secrets to our enemies.
    He signed a oath and took a promise to guard those secrets.
    Had he had an issue he could have resigned. But he WANTS to do damage to the US. He is no hero. There is a good chance that he will get people killed.
    There is your break.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    He may be a hero to you, but any right thinking American know you dont sell or give national secrets to our enemies.
    He signed a oath and took a promise to guard those secrets.
    Had he had an issue he could have resigned. But he WANTS to do damage to the US. He is no hero. There is a good chance that he will get people killed.
    There is your break.
    Read post #98.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Manning indiscriminately gave away a pile of secrets because he was dissatisfied with his service, the Army, and the war. He did it to punish the powers that be.

    Snowden exposed a secret program that appears, on the surface, very much like a constitutional affront. He did not do it to punish the government, nor to hurt US interests; he chose a specific journalist he trusted to put another set of eyes on the information before it went public, just to insure there wasn't something in there that could do indiscriminate damage. He did it on behalf of the American citizen.

    Manning tried to hurt, even if he thought his intentions (to stop the US from... whatever it was he was accusing it of) were pure. Snowden tried to help.
    Other than you making up malicious intentions on the part of Manning, I see no real difference. Both were upset by actions taken by our government, and revealed those actions to the American people. But Manning's information embarrassed the military and was about our foreign policies, while Snowden's had to do with something unpopular and domestic policy. I think the difference is entirely partisan. Manning and Wikileaks doesn't fit the pro-military, anti-foreigners platform, while Snowden fits the anti-government, anti-Obama one. If one really supports the government being transparent and accountable to the people, then they don't pick and choose which parts of the government to keep an eye on.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    ... While killing everyone else on board? That's not very moderate, in fact, that's down right extreme - something you'd hear Senator Lindsay Graham or former Vice President Dick Cheney say.
    also something that happens when you send drones into civilian populations ...

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    From WaPo:

    Snowden was charged with theft, “unauthorized communication of national defense information” and “willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person,” according to the complaint. The last two charges were brought under the 1917 Espionage Act.

    The complaint, which initially was sealed, was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden’s former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered and a district with a long track record of prosecuting cases with national security implications. After The Washington Post reported the charges, senior administration officials said late Friday that the Justice Department was barraged with calls from lawmakers and reporters and decided to unseal the criminal complaint.

    U.S. charges Snowden with espionage - The Washington Post
    Yet there is no accountability for the Government. Sound like 1776 anyone?
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Read post #98.
    And post 99 still applies. He made himself an enemy.

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    Re: U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Other than you making up malicious intentions on the part of Manning, I see no real difference. Both were upset by actions taken by our government, and revealed those actions to the American people. But Manning's information embarrassed the military and was about our foreign policies, while Snowden's had to do with something unpopular and domestic policy. I think the difference is entirely partisan. Manning and Wikileaks doesn't fit the pro-military, anti-foreigners platform, while Snowden fits the anti-government, anti-Obama one. If one really supports the government being transparent and accountable to the people, then they don't pick and choose which parts of the government to keep an eye on.
    He was already in trouble with the military. He was going through a break down. When he was threatened with losing his only day off a week he flipped over a table. He beat up a female soldier and lost rank. He was angry, emotionally distraught, and isolated.

    This is the chat log with Adrian Lamo right before his huge disclosures of data:

    (11:49:02 AM) bradass87: im in the desert, with a bunch of hyper-masculine trigger happy ignorant rednecks as neighbors... and the only safe place i seem to have is this satellite internet connection

    (11:49:51 AM) bradass87: and i already got myself into minor trouble, revealing my uncertainty over my gender identity ... which is causing me to lose this job ... and putting me in an awkward limbo [...]

    (11:52:23 AM) bradass87: at the very least, i managed to keep my security clearance [so far] [...]

    (11:58:33 AM) bradass87: and little does anyone know, but among this "visible" mess, theres the mess i created that no-one knows about yet [...]

    (12:15:11 PM) bradass87: hypothetical question: if you had free reign [sic] over classified networks for long periods of time ... say, 8–9 months ... and you saw incredible things, awful things ... things that belonged in the public domain, and not on some server stored in a dark room in Washington DC ... what would you do? [...]

    (12:21:24 PM) bradass87: say ... a database of half a million events during the iraq war ... from 2004 to 2009 ... with reports, date time groups, lat-lon locations, casualty figures ...? or 260,000 state department cables from embassies and consulates all over the world, explaining how the first world exploits the third, in detail, from an internal perspective? [...]

    (12:26:09 PM) bradass87: lets just say *someone* i know intimately well, has been penetrating US classified networks, mining data like the ones described ... and been transferring that data from the classified networks over the “air gap” onto a commercial network computer ... sorting the data, compressing it, encrypting it, and uploading it to a crazy white haired aussie who can't seem to stay in one country very long =L [...]

    (12:31:43 PM) bradass87: crazy white haired dude = Julian Assange

    (12:33:05 PM) bradass87: in other words ... ive made a huge mess :’([48]
    He was clearly pissed off at the Army, and the "first world".

    And given the rest of your statement, should I conclude that you agree with both leakers?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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