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Thread: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    That he is not black?
    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    However, the position of the OP is that Rahm Emanuel is black (he's not), and that it's the Democrats' fault.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    Quote Originally Posted by hidingrpolitics View Post
    I was thinking of the teacher's strike last year when Chicago teachers went on strike despite the fact that they are already paid way above the national average for teachers;
    1. The teachers were being asked to work longer days so they wanted to be compensated for those hours. It is rational to want to be compensated for a longer work day. The fact that other people are paid less than them does not make that desire any less rational and reasonable.

    2. The teachers were also responding to the fact the city government lied about not have the funds to give them raises the previous year. They also sought to be compensated for the funds that they were deceived into forfeiting.

    if it were really about the kids, they would have taken their $70k annual salary plus benefits and taught the students while negotiating instead of saying they needed a raise "for the kids".
    They didn't say that needed a raise for the kids. They said that some of the other things they were negotiating for would benefit students from smaller class sizes to increased counseling services in high risk areas.

    Also, it's well-known how hard it is to currently fire a teacher, even if they are known to be sub-par.
    The teacher's union wanted due process including means to improve poor teachers rather than merely firing them. Why is this a bad thing? Someone gets to keep their job and students get a better teacher.

    "Waiting for Superman" is a documentary that touches on the problems built into the education system and how schools essentially shuffle around bad teachers because they are not allowed to fire them.
    I saw that documentary. It was propaganda for profit-based charter school reform movements.

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    Karen Lewis is a tool. Chicago schools suck because they are a product of Chicago.

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    You blame the weather on Democrats, so that's not a surprise.
    Well you could blame this mess on the Republicans but even the most enthusiastic leftists would have trouble swallowing that line.

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    1. The teachers were being asked to work longer days so they wanted to be compensated for those hours. It is rational to want to be compensated for a longer work day. The fact that other people are paid less than them does not make that desire any less rational and reasonable.

    2. The teachers were also responding to the fact the city government lied about not have the funds to give them raises the previous year. They also sought to be compensated for the funds that they were deceived into forfeiting.


    They didn't say that needed a raise for the kids. They said that some of the other things they were negotiating for would benefit students from smaller class sizes to increased counseling services in high risk areas.


    The teacher's union wanted due process including means to improve poor teachers rather than merely firing them. Why is this a bad thing? Someone gets to keep their job and students get a better teacher.


    I saw that documentary. It was propaganda for profit-based charter school reform movements.

    My point was that the teachers were already overpaid, and they were already being offered a 10%+ pay raise over 3 years. They wanted an even bigger pay raise plus a clause that prevented administrators from grading teachers.

    The teacher's union may have once been about promoting a fair due process for firing. However, now it borders on impossible. Teachers who have assaulted students, who have demonstrated years of underperformance from students and lackluster test scores, are somehow immune to firings that would have happened a while ago in a system with more accountability. To flip your statement around, why is firing a poor teacher a bad thing? You can replace him or her with a potentially good teacher; an upcoming individual gets a job and the students get a better teacher. In a system with accountability, teachers can either choose to be more engaged in teaching students or be replaced by a teacher with more passion and drive for the job.

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    Quote Originally Posted by hidingrpolitics View Post
    My point was that the teachers were already overpaid, and they were already being offered a 10%+ pay raise over 3 years.
    Whether they were "overpaid" is a pure matter of opinion. The fact is that they wanted to be compensated for longer hours and a raise that they were deceived into forfeiting. I have no problem with that.

    They wanted an even bigger pay raise plus a clause that prevented administrators from grading teachers.
    This is inaccurate. The teacher's union wanted a evaluation system that was fair. They did not want to get rid of the evaluation system as you imply here.

    The teacher's union may have once been about promoting a fair due process for firing. However, now it borders on impossible. Teachers who have assaulted students, who have demonstrated years of underperformance from students and lackluster test scores, are somehow immune to firings that would have happened a while ago in a system with more accountability.
    Nobody is "immune" to being fired. Teachers have due process and yes, their union - in Chicago at least - wants fair due process even if you don't believe it.

    To flip your statement around, why is firing a poor teacher a bad thing? You can replace him or her with a potentially good teacher; an upcoming individual gets a job and the students get a better teacher. In a system with accountability, teachers can either choose to be more engaged in teaching students or be replaced by a teacher with more passion and drive for the job.
    How about you answer my question before you "flip it around"? What you did is avoid answering a question by deflecting. Here. I'll post it again and hope that you're honest this time.

    The teacher's union wanted due process including means to improve poor teachers rather than merely firing them. Why is this a bad thing? Someone gets to keep their job and students get a better teacher.

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I don't think Rahm Emmanuel is black...

    I don't know what happens in Illinois, but I know that in many states because of how schools are funded, inner-city students tend to get shafted when it comes to funding. I don't know that it's racism per se, but it's not even "Separate but equal," it's separate and un-equal. You can call it any number of things, but it's an awfully big coincidence that there's a lot of minority students that get shafted in education.
    And how is that the fault of anyone but inner city parents that choose to live in poverty with their hands out?

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Whether they were "overpaid" is a pure matter of opinion. The fact is that they wanted to be compensated for longer hours and a raise that they were deceived into forfeiting. I have no problem with that.


    This is inaccurate. The teacher's union wanted a evaluation system that was fair. They did not want to get rid of the evaluation system as you imply here.


    Nobody is "immune" to being fired. Teachers have due process and yes, their union - in Chicago at least - wants fair due process even if you don't believe it.


    How about you answer my question before you "flip it around"? What you did is avoid answering a question by deflecting. Here. I'll post it again and hope that you're honest this time.

    The teacher's union wanted due process including means to improve poor teachers rather than merely firing them. Why is this a bad thing? Someone gets to keep their job and students get a better teacher.

    I thought I did answer your question. There is nothing wrong with wanting a fair evaluation process before any firing and trying to improve current teachers. I was saying I don't agree with the premise. "Fair" is a subjective term, and I think we have crossed the boundaries of what is "fair" when it comes to teacher evaluations. What they wanted was an almost ironclad process where only a small percentage of incompetent teachers could be fired or held accountable. This is certainly not for the good of the student because a terrible teacher could stay employed for a long, long time under the rules that they, and other teachers' unions, were asking for. I am saying standards should be more stringent when it concerns the future of this country. Teachers should be held to MUCH higher standards than they currently are. Our education system is not failing due to lack of funding; it is failing due to lack of accountability.

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    Hey libs. The poor Asians do much better in school. The poor whites do much better in school. The problem with the majority black schools is culture. The exact same life-choices that have 70% of all babies born out of wedlock. Highest crime rates of any ethnic group, without a close second. And highest rates of voting Democrat, and that ain't close either.

    All these excuses about "poverty" and "racism" are bull****. Lack of accountability. Blame someone else. "I'm a victim. Its not my fault" jackass BS.

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    re: Lewis Points Finger At ‘Rich White People’ For School Problems [W:178]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    And you can forget the income disparity excuse as well. It's complete and utter bulls**t that is the common refrain of all the bloated, useless big city teachers unions and liberal hacks.

    Case in point: Uganda has a higher literacy rate than Detroit (85% for Uganda to 53% in Detroit). Care to guess which students are better funded?

    In fact, Detroit students are funded well above the national average yet have an abysmal 25% graduation rate. A student in Detroit has a higher likelihood of going to jail than they do graduating high school... and this is a funding issue? No. It's the all too common outcome of a nanny state that breeds anger, resentment and dependency and while killing initiative.
    The problems also exist in a culture where the phrase "baby daddy" exists and is used all too frequently. It's a result of the system telling every kid that he can be whatever he wants to be, but gets lied to at every step along the way. It's parents wanting schools and television to raise their kids while they take a "hands-off" approach to the education of their own children.

    As far as I'm concerned, parents and schools are doing a tag-team job at the decimation of the poor black urban youth. What's worse is that they won't approach solutions that don't come off as ultra-PC and may challenge conventional wisdom that clearly doesn't work and hasn't for decades.

    Everyone's afraid of the truth, of unpopular results, of blaming themselves for their own problems and contributions to the problem.

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