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Thread: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

  1. #31
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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Why are you in so much of a hurry to see the US get involved in the killing of more people in the ME
    ask racist susan rice

    Syria chemical weapons: President Obama's forced hand - POLITICO.com

    you really don't know what's going on around you, do you?

    LOL!

    maybe you should buy a tv

    how's that obvious cold war with russia coming along?

    and aren't those peace talks with the taliban exciting!

    what an idiot...

    ms rice, i mean

  2. #32
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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Your first two points have validity - your latter three points are utter nonsense.
    I see... lets see.

    Libya erupted after Obama took over - Qhaddafi was well behaved after Afghanistan/Iraq and Bush's warning for him to behave
    What? Yes Libya happened after Obama took over, but the seeds of revolution were put there under Bush's watch. Dont even try to deny it.

    Syria erupted after Obama took over
    Again, so what? Revolution in Syria only happened because people saw it was possible because of Bush taking out Saddam and emboldening various sects and tribes across the Middle East to rise up against their governments.

    Iraq is not as stable as it was when Bush left, partly because the US is not there to keep the Iranians from interferring
    Iraq was never stable, both under Bush and Obama. It is a mess today and has been a mess since day one of the invasion and the Iranians started to interfere as soon as the first US troops entered Iraq. Anyone with even the minimal knowledge of the Middle East could have told Bush and his right wing wackos that this would happen.

    Egypt erupted after Obama took over.
    And so what again. The seeds of revolution were put in place by Bush. Because of Iraq, Mubarak felt that he had to loosen his grip... and that cost him his job.

    Do you get the trend here?
    Yes the trend that you are in total denial of what damage Bush and his policies did not only to individual nation states but to the whole region and to the image of the US.

    It amazes me that we heard all the time about the "brilliant" Bush doctrine to push democracy and revolution against dictators like Saddam in the Middle East, and suddenly when it happens after he has left office and the new guy is a black guy with the middle name of Hussien, then all of a sudden it is bad and all his fault that it is happening... gezz the double standard really stinks ...

    Everyone around the world realized Obama was all talk no action and they could act with impunity.
    LOL of course they could act with impunity, because Bush had committed all US forces to 2 wars and gone bankrupt doing it. Add to that, the total lack of respect the US has now due to these policies and you have a mixing pot for people not caring what the US thinks... and it shows. Oh and the financial melt down and the lack of accountability there also had a big influence on nations and people's attitude towards the US.

    The only reason Libya ended up differently was because the French had interests in the region and they convinced NATO to act, against Obama's wishes and Mr. Lead from Behind jumped on the bandwagon as it was heading out.
    Come on...If anyone had interests in Libya it aint the French... but Italy. And Obama balked about using US forces in Libya because BUSH the moron had committed the US to two wars and starting a 3rd was a big no no. That is why the US pushed for a European/NATO solution with US back up and it worked some what. You simply did not have the money or troops to do anything with!

    But like in all of these cases every time the US butts its head in (mostly Bush but also Obama) the only ones who really gain anything are the Islamic fundamentalists and AL Q groups and of course Iran.. and it all goes back to the invasion of Iraq which was a mistake of epic proportions if the overall goal was to prevent Iran and its allies from getting more influence.

    In almost every country in the Middle East, public opinion was more favorable to Bush than Obama.
    And you can provide evidence of this of course? From a reliable source?

    You blaming Bush for what's happening in the Middle East after Bush left office and Obama supposedly offered a new day would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragically stupid.
    Do you seriously think that the day Bush left office, that his policies stopped having any influence on what happened from that day? Revolutions takes years to brew, they do not start and happen over night.

    Let me ask you this... was it Bush Sr that should get credit for the fall of the Iron Curtain... it happened after all on his watch?
    PeteEU

  3. #33
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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    We were gonna leave Iraq eventually. Mittens probably would have stuck to the Bush plan as much as Obama has. Iraq isn't likely to be a stable democracy without us there to force the issue, which is what I was saying 10 years ago. The Cons were all "It'll be fine, democracy will flower and take root in the region." Guess what -- we were right in the first place! Your answer is to stay forever?
    I believe if Obama had negotiated a deal with the Iraqis, as Bush had intended, to leave a small contingent of troops in Iraq, similar to how the US left troops in Korea and other areas of the world, the Iranians and their friends in the Iraq government would not be so openly plotting to destroy the ba'athist - there would be less tension in that regard - I was only making the counter point that Iraq was more stable when Bush left and the fact it's less stable now is not Bush's fault. Iraq is/was always going to be a democracy not like America - nothing in the Middle East will ever be like America - but it is an example to other countries in the region of how the people themselves can have more of a say in their governance. You may not like how democracy is turning out there, but you can't deny that democracy is taking root and much of the reason why there's unrest in the Middle East is because other countries there want that shot at democracy too.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #34
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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    You've made a good case for Obama scaling back US interference in the ME. While that may not be seen as a positive thing for Americans, it can't but help be seen as positive for the rest of the world that understands US aggression is the biggest stumbling block to world peace.

    Priorities my fellow Canadian. And it's pretty obvious that your priorities weren't the priorities of Canadians on the Iraq war and a lot of other US aggression. Are you sure you're in the right country?

    Obama all talk and no action? That's my whole case for favouring him when it comes to US foreign policy. Why are you in so much of a hurry to see the US get involved in the killing of more people in the ME?
    You clearly have no concept of world dynamics - one of the strongest ways to gain peace is through strength. America is without a doubt the strongest, most powerful and influential country in the world. When America does not wield that power it creates a dangerous vacuum. America may not like it, but that's where they are in the world these days. The fact that Obama threatens action and never takes any means that his threats are useless and dangerous.
    Last edited by CanadaJohn; 06-20-13 at 06:55 PM.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Other countries may not have liked Bush but they respected him. Obama is being dis respected which is far worse than being dis liked for a president of a super power.
    Absolutely right.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And you can provide evidence of this of course? From a reliable source?
    I won't respond to all your post since you simply regurgitate much of what I countered in my previous post.

    I would direct you to the attached Pew Research analysis for some insight into Middle Eastern views of Obama and Bush.

    Global Opinion of Obama Slips, International Policies Faulted | Pew Global Attitudes Project
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You clearly have no concept of world dynamics - one of the strongest ways to gain peace is through strength. America is without a doubt the strongest, most powerful and influential country in the world. When America does not wield that power it creates a dangerous vacuum. America may not like it, but that's where they are in the world these days.
    Peace through strength? Yes, undoubtedly the US had to bomb Iraq to show it's strength.

    And you think the US should have stayed in Iraq to show strength? And the Iraq outcome is Obama's fault?

    And you think the missing WMD's went to Syria and are going to go to Lebanon?

    The fact that Obama threatens action and never takes any means that his threats are useless and dangerous.
    And that's pretty much my point. Obama is dragging his feet on another war! And that's what the American people want him to do and all except the baggers who hate him freely tell us that. It was the libertarians' and Ron Paul's main agenda item. Stopping costly foreign wars! You need to have a father and son with your US friends before you say much more! And you think I have no concept of world dynamics?? Are you for real?

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Being liked is over rated. Being trusted is far, far more valuable in international relations.
    I really don't understand how anyone could like or trust him.



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  9. #39
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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    all except the baggers
    LOL!

    Rand Paul introduces bill to block Obama from sending aid to Syria | The Daily Caller

    could it be that all consuming hatred of jews that is blinding to you to such hi profile events circling so loudly around you?

    racists are so stupid

    cfr: amateur hour

    der spiegel: nice guy falls flat

    wsj: embarrassing

    nyt: rejected on world stage

    nj: jelly donut

    what an idiot...

    obama, i mean

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