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Thread: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

  1. #21
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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The damage Bush did to relations world wide was massive and you have to earn that trust back. Obama has gone some of the way, but far far from all the way. Instead of the US having the benefit of the doubt these days, the US has to prove its intentions.

    A good example is the whole "chemical weapons use" in Syria. France came out and said that Assad use it, but the US said it needed to double check the French results. Fair enough, but when the US finally came out and said it was true, the world said .... oh really? Everyone had forgotten the French evidence and that of the UN, but were pointing out that the US "called wolf" once before so why should the US be trusted?

    Like it or not the US has lost a lot of credibility world wide because of Bush, and Obama has been unable to regain that credibility and I doubt that any US president in the near future will be able to do that.
    That's nonsense. Bush got a UN sanctioned coalition to go into Afghanistan and he got a large coalition to go into Iraq even though the French blocked it in the UN Security Council. And dictators throughout the Middle East quaked in their boots worrying about who was next and it kept them in line. With Obama in charge, the US is laughed at internationally and the Middle East is the wild west and full of turmoil.

    There's more to good international relations than a nice smile and platitudes. There's an expectation that friends will be friends regardless of how tough things get - the international community can't depend on Obama and the US for anything now.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  2. #22
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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's nonsense. Bush got a UN sanctioned coalition to go into Afghanistan and he got a large coalition to go into Iraq even though the French blocked it in the UN Security Council. And dictators throughout the Middle East quaked in their boots worrying about who was next and it kept them in line. With Obama in charge, the US is laughed at internationally and the Middle East is the wild west and full of turmoil.

    There's more to good international relations than a nice smile and platitudes. There's an expectation that friends will be friends regardless of how tough things get - the international community can't depend on Obama and the US for anything now.

    Iraq didn't exactly get a big coalition. What was it, US, the Brits, a couple of Poles and a guy from Moldova?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    I'm reminded of the fable about the turtle and the scorpion.

    snopes.com: Scorpion and Turtle Folktale

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's nonsense. Bush got a UN sanctioned coalition to go into Afghanistan
    Yes they sympathy was with the US. Even the Iranians were with the US...

    and he got a large coalition to go into Iraq even though the French blocked it in the UN Security Council.
    No... it never got to a vote and it was far from only France. Russia and China were also against it.

    And dictators throughout the Middle East quaked in their boots worrying about who was next and it kept them in line.
    Yea that has gone real well has it not? Massive bloodshed in Libya, Iraq and Syria. A fundamentalist government in Egypt and soon in other areas of North Africa. And no democracy... and the US even hated more than before. Congrats!

    With Obama in charge, the US is laughed at internationally and the Middle East is the wild west and full of turmoil.
    Wtf? The US has been laughed at internationally because of Bush and his policies, and the turmoil is solely due to those policies as well.

    There's more to good international relations than a nice smile and platitudes. There's an expectation that friends will be friends regardless of how tough things get - the international community can't depend on Obama and the US for anything now.
    Of course they cant.. because BUSH ****ed everything up for the US. The US lost all credibility because of Bush and his policies and attitudes. Blaming Obama for what Bush caused is frankly beyond pathetic.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Iraq didn't exactly get a big coalition. What was it, US, the Brits, a couple of Poles and a guy from Moldova?
    How successful has Obama been on Syria?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yes they sympathy was with the US. Even the Iranians were with the US...



    No... it never got to a vote and it was far from only France. Russia and China were also against it.



    Yea that has gone real well has it not? Massive bloodshed in Libya, Iraq and Syria. A fundamentalist government in Egypt and soon in other areas of North Africa. And no democracy... and the US even hated more than before. Congrats!



    Wtf? The US has been laughed at internationally because of Bush and his policies, and the turmoil is solely due to those policies as well.



    Of course they cant.. because BUSH ****ed everything up for the US. The US lost all credibility because of Bush and his policies and attitudes. Blaming Obama for what Bush caused is frankly beyond pathetic.
    Your first two points have validity - your latter three points are utter nonsense. Libya erupted after Obama took over - Qhaddafi was well behaved after Afghanistan/Iraq and Bush's warning for him to behave - Syria erupted after Obama took over - Iraq is not as stable as it was when Bush left, partly because the US is not there to keep the Iranians from interferring - Egypt erupted after Obama took over.

    Do you get the trend here? Everyone around the world realized Obama was all talk no action and they could act with impunity. The only reason Libya ended up differently was because the French had interests in the region and they convinced NATO to act, against Obama's wishes and Mr. Lead from Behind jumped on the bandwagon as it was heading out.

    In almost every country in the Middle East, public opinion was more favorable to Bush than Obama. You blaming Bush for what's happening in the Middle East after Bush left office and Obama supposedly offered a new day would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragically stupid.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    How successful has Obama been on Syria?
    Did I miss where we invaded Syria?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Your first two points have validity - your latter three points are utter nonsense. Libya erupted after Obama took over - Qhaddafi was well behaved after Afghanistan/Iraq and Bush's warning for him to behave - Syria erupted after Obama took over - Iraq is not as stable as it was when Bush left, partly because the US is not there to keep the Iranians from interferring - Egypt erupted after Obama took over.

    Do you get the trend here? Everyone around the world realized Obama was all talk no action and they could act with impunity. The only reason Libya ended up differently was because the French had interests in the region and they convinced NATO to act, against Obama's wishes and Mr. Lead from Behind jumped on the bandwagon as it was heading out.

    In almost every country in the Middle East, public opinion was more favorable to Bush than Obama. You blaming Bush for what's happening in the Middle East after Bush left office and Obama supposedly offered a new day would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragically stupid.
    We were gonna leave Iraq eventually. Mittens probably would have stuck to the Bush plan as much as Obama has. Iraq isn't likely to be a stable democracy without us there to force the issue, which is what I was saying 10 years ago. The Cons were all "It'll be fine, democracy will flower and take root in the region." Guess what -- we were right in the first place! Your answer is to stay forever?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  9. #29
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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Your first two points have validity - your latter three points are utter nonsense. Libya erupted after Obama took over - Qhaddafi was well behaved after Afghanistan/Iraq and Bush's warning for him to behave - Syria erupted after Obama took over - Iraq is not as stable as it was when Bush left, partly because the US is not there to keep the Iranians from interferring - Egypt erupted after Obama took over.

    Do you get the trend here? Everyone around the world realized Obama was all talk no action and they could act with impunity. The only reason Libya ended up differently was because the French had interests in the region and they convinced NATO to act, against Obama's wishes and Mr. Lead from Behind jumped on the bandwagon as it was heading out.

    In almost every country in the Middle East, public opinion was more favorable to Bush than Obama. You blaming Bush for what's happening in the Middle East after Bush left office and Obama supposedly offered a new day would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragically stupid.
    You've made a good case for Obama scaling back US interference in the ME. While that may not be seen as a positive thing for Americans, it can't but help be seen as positive for the rest of the world that understands US aggression is the biggest stumbling block to world peace.

    Priorities my fellow Canadian. And it's pretty obvious that your priorities weren't the priorities of Canadians on the Iraq war and a lot of other US aggression. Are you sure you're in the right country?

    Obama all talk and no action? That's my whole case for favouring him when it comes to US foreign policy. Why are you in so much of a hurry to see the US get involved in the killing of more people in the ME?

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    Re: Extending a Hand Abroad, Obama Often Finds a Cold Shoulder

    Other countries may not have liked Bush but they respected him. Obama is being dis respected which is far worse than being dis liked for a president of a super power.

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