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Thread: Putin: Didn’t feel isolated, not all G8 leaders agree Assad used chemical weapons

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    Re: US's Anti-Syria Propaganda Stumbles

    Ron Paul: ?Obama?s Syria policy looks a lot like Bush?s Iraq policy? ? RT USA

    Good ol Ron Paul will just not keep his cakehole shut. But now he's saying about exactly what the baggers and the libertarians want him to say and they all go dark on the issue. Thereby giving us more evidence that the baggers are just blowing smoke with their feigned opposition to more US led wars in the ME.

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    Re: US's Anti-Syria Propaganda Stumbles

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    You haven't read Pelletiere's story and so there's really no use talking to you about the issue any further. Continue to believe the propaganda that makes you feel most comfortable.
    I've read Pelletiere's opinion piece. His opinion differs from the findings of humanitarian agencies and the United Nations. Iran was loosely allied with Iraq's Kurds and had no motive whatsoever to attack them. Iraq, on the other hand, had much incentive to attack them. Moreover, witnesses to the attack recognized Iraqi, not Iranian, aircraft.

    Your country will likely get itself involved in a war with Syria if it can enlist the UN to aid it's march to war. However, even if the UN isn't willing, and it appears that it isn't, the US will likely just sidestep the UN and use Nato's somewhat lesser credibility over the UN's protests...
    IMO, the U.S. should avoid getting involved in Syria's sectarian conflict (lack of critical U.S. interests involved; lack of indications from the anti-Assad movement that it would form an inclusive/stable government, be more hospitable to U.S. regional interests, seek to conclude peace with Israel; its own disregard for civilian protections, etc.). I've consistently stated that view and have no compelling reason to change that position at this time. In short, if you're assuming I advocate U.S. intervention in Syria's sectarian conflict, that assumption is incorrect.

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    Re: US's Anti-Syria Propaganda Stumbles

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I've read Pelletiere's opinion piece. His opinion differs from the findings of humanitarian agencies and the United Nations. Iran was loosely allied with Iraq's Kurds and had no motive whatsoever to attack them. Iraq, on the other hand, had much incentive to attack them. Moreover, witnesses to the attack recognized Iraqi, not Iranian, aircraft.



    IMO, the U.S. should avoid getting involved in Syria's sectarian conflict (lack of critical U.S. interests involved; lack of indications from the anti-Assad movement that it would form an inclusive/stable government, be more hospitable to U.S. regional interests, seek to conclude peace with Israel; its own disregard for civilian protections, etc.). I've consistently stated that view and have no compelling reason to change that position at this time. In short, if you're assuming I advocate U.S. intervention in Syria's sectarian conflict, that assumption is incorrect.
    Good, now we can continue. The fact is, Iraq didn't have the right type of gas that was used at Halabja according to Pelletiere. And so we have to contemplate that Pelletiere could have been lying if he said that. Was he lying? If he was lying then it was to cover up the fact that the gas used had to have been supplied to Saddam by the US.

    And there's my point with Pelletiere. Now you can choose your side on that one.

    What makes this applicable to the current times for me is that it's the 'gas attack' scenario being played out again by the US propagandists. Americans should be proactive and do everything in their capability to not let that happen. And as you will see on the other thread, Ron Paul is being and is making the right suggestions.

    Plain and simple, there is no proof of the gas attacks by Assad's side. There isn't even proof of gas attacks by the terrorist side. Del Ponte has gone dark on the issue and that tells us all we need to know. The UN leans toward the West in nearly all cases and would not hold back evidence that could seal the case against Assad.

    I'm interested in your further comments on Pelletiere especially.

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    Re: US's Anti-Syria Propaganda Stumbles

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You mean we would ivade Syrian airspace to attack Saddam's arny?
    I didn't say that at all, but it wouldn't be the worse thing we've. Done. Saddam was a frightened man. He fear Iran, so he had to pretend he had wmds, and he feared us, so he had to present the other face. Playing the deception game was difficult. He really wasn't a threat to do much else. Too much risk.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: US's Anti-Syria Propaganda Stumbles

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    Good, now we can continue. The fact is, Iraq didn't have the right type of gas that was used at Halabja according to Pelletiere. And so we have to contemplate that Pelletiere could have been lying if he said that. Was he lying? If he was lying then it was to cover up the fact that the gas used had to have been supplied to Saddam by the US.

    And there's my point with Pelletiere. Now you can choose your side on that one.

    What makes this applicable to the current times for me is that it's the 'gas attack' scenario being played out again by the US propagandists. Americans should be proactive and do everything in their capability to not let that happen. And as you will see on the other thread, Ron Paul is being and is making the right suggestions.

    Plain and simple, there is no proof of the gas attacks by Assad's side. There isn't even proof of gas attacks by the terrorist side. Del Ponte has gone dark on the issue and that tells us all we need to know. The UN leans toward the West in nearly all cases and would not hold back evidence that could seal the case against Assad.

    I'm interested in your further comments on Pelletiere especially.
    Pelletiere’s recollection about the attack at Halabja is likely incorrect. That’s quite different from any assertion that he was “lying.”

    Iraq used a combination of mustard gas and never agents (sarin and tabun) in its attack on Halabja.

    BBC News | Saddam's Iraq: Key events

    Following the 1991 Persian Gulf War, Iraq documented that it possessed all of those chemical weapons.

    http://www.un.org/depts/unmovic/new/...-munitions.pdf

    In sum, Iraq used weapons that were in its arsenal in the attack on Halabja.

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    Re: Putin: Didnít feel isolated, not all G8 leaders agree Assad used chemical weapons

    donsutherland:
    Pelletiere’s recollection about the attack at Halabja is likely incorrect. That’s quite different from any assertion that he was “lying.”
    Yeah, maybe he forgot or something? Or maybe he was having a bad dream? Or maybe he was a highranking Russian spy who was posing as a high ranking CIA section leader? And here I thought that you were more interested in finding out the truth rather than defending your country's propaganda.

    How about if we both agree to not waste each others time anymore?

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    Re: US's Anti-Syria Propaganda Stumbles

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    The only question I have is... I take that back, I actually have 2 questions.

    1. Has anyone in this conflict used chemical weapons?
    2. If anyone has, where did they get them?
    I've always believed that Saddam's chemical weapons found their way across the Iraq/Syrian border in the lead up to the American invasion in 2003 - Saddam was known to use chemical weapons inside Iraq against the Kurds in the north and against Iran during the Iraq/Iran war. Those weapons just seemed to disappear once America invaded and took over Iran. Any bets that as Assad falls, these chemical weapons will find their way into Lebanon?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: US's Anti-Syria Propaganda Stumbles

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I've always believed that Saddam's chemical weapons found their way across the Iraq/Syrian border in the lead up to the American invasion in 2003 - Saddam was known to use chemical weapons inside Iraq against the Kurds in the north and against Iran during the Iraq/Iran war. Those weapons just seemed to disappear once America invaded and took over Iran. Any bets that as Assad falls, these chemical weapons will find their way into Lebanon?
    Great idea! Were you sort of thinking before their expiry date or were you sort of not thinking?
    And were you sort of thinkin that Assad has been using Saddam's missing WMD's?
    This is an idea that you should maybe make the US aware of because I think they've sort of given up on the idea now.
    wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more.

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    Re: US's Anti-Syria Propaganda Stumbles

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Only if you think the two have equal ability. They don't. Not only that, Saddam had more to fear by acting.
    They did have equal ability.

    I'm finding you're not very analytical.
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    Re: Putin: Didnít feel isolated, not all G8 leaders agree Assad used chemical weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    donsutherland:

    Yeah, maybe he forgot or something? Or maybe he was having a bad dream? Or maybe he was a highranking Russian spy who was posing as a high ranking CIA section leader? And here I thought that you were more interested in finding out the truth rather than defending your country's propaganda.

    How about if we both agree to not waste each others time anymore?
    You're missing the point:

    If multiple independent investigations, not to mention witness accounts, reach a given conclusion and that conclusion is also lent further credence by the conflict context, why should one automatically accept an outlier solution unless very strong evidence were provided for that solution? That is not the case in the op-ed, which contains assertions e.g., the use of a "blood agent," that are not backed up by evidence, documents, or witness accounts.

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