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Thread: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

  1. #21
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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    Detaining kids who are vandalizing property until police arrive shouldn't be child endangerment.

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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    Bet you would stretch it beyond the 'mild' if it was a case such as the Zimmerman/Martin case! Let me know and I'll know whether to take you seriously or not.
    Are you truly ignorant to such as Stand Your Ground (SYG) law, and such as the Castle Doctrine, or just being silly ? Do you realize that such as the Castel Doctrine makes it OK for you to shoot intruders WITHOUT them assaulting you to where you are in imminent peril of serious injury ? meanwhile, the Zimmerman-Martin case is one of pure self-defense (alleged). Here in FL, the self-defense statute was incorporated into the SYG statute. But its still simple self-defense, where the SYG concept is a bit more complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Grabbing someone by the neck is mild physical restraint?
    Was anyone choked ? Do you know WTF you are talking about ?

    As I addressed a bit in the above reply to the uninformed one, we do have laws which allow deadly force in non-deadly situations. So while shooting someone is typically assumed to be a crime, we know that the law allows for situations where it is not. When I said that mild restraint should be allowed, it is in the direct spirit of the Castle Doctrine, where exceptions are made because the presumption is that the perp is already guilty of fomenting a threat upon you, your family, or your property.

    These kids were apprehended inside a house, trespassing, and in the act of vandalizing. Is that in doubt ?

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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Are you truly ignorant to such as Stand Your Ground (SYG) law, and such as the Castle Doctrine, or just being silly ? Do you realize that such as the Castel Doctrine makes it OK for you to shoot intruders WITHOUT them assaulting you to where you are in imminent peril of serious injury ? meanwhile, the Zimmerman-Martin case is one of pure self-defense (alleged). Here in FL, the self-defense statute was incorporated into the SYG statute. But its still simple self-defense, where the SYG concept is a bit more complicated.



    Was anyone choked ? Do you know WTF you are talking about ?

    As I addressed a bit in the above reply to the uninformed one, we do have laws which allow deadly force in non-deadly situations. So while shooting someone is typically assumed to be a crime, we know that the law allows for situations where it is not. When I said that mild restraint should be allowed, it is in the direct spirit of the Castle Doctrine, where exceptions are made because the presumption is that the perp is already guilty of fomenting a threat upon you, your family, or your property.

    These kids were apprehended inside a house, trespassing, and in the act of vandalizing. Is that in doubt ?
    What the kids did are not in doubt. However, this is a defense of property issue, not self-defense since the damage was being done to the house, not the person. Therefore, in NY deadly force is not allowed in those circumstances, as stated in NY Penal law,
    Any person may use physical force upon another person when he or
    she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate
    what he or she reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted
    commission by such other person of a crime involving damage to premises.
    Such person may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly
    physical force, which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for
    such purpose, and may use deadly physical force if he or she reasonably
    believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or
    attempted commission of arson.
    So, if grabbing the neck was seen to be deadly force, then the defense of property will not work. And FYI I do not consider a grown man grabbing a 10 year old by the neck, if true, to be mild physical restraint.
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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    Perhaps he didn't have any duct tape to hog tie them with. Closets are scary.

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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    What the kids did are not in doubt. However, this is a defense of property issue, not self-defense since the damage was being done to the house, not the person. Therefore, in NY deadly force is not allowed in those circumstances, as stated in NY Penal law,

    So, if grabbing the neck was seen to be deadly force, then the defense of property will not work. And FYI I do not consider a grown man grabbing a 10 year old by the neck, if true, to be mild physical restraint.
    Did he grab the kid by the throat or on the shoulder or back of the neck?

    Was it in the process of disarming the kid with the hammer?

    Did the kid brandish the hammer, safe in the knowledge that adults can't touch him?

    I can think of scenarios where the guy could be out of line, even enough to rise to the criminal.

    I can imagine far more where little bastards parents are covering for their little ****s and trying to avoid footing the bill for the brats escapades.
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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Did he grab the kid by the throat or on the shoulder or back of the neck?

    Was it in the process of disarming the kid with the hammer?

    Did the kid brandish the hammer, safe in the knowledge that adults can't touch him?

    I can think of scenarios where the guy could be out of line, even enough to rise to the criminal.

    I can imagine far more where little bastards parents are covering for their little ****s and trying to avoid footing the bill for the brats escapades.
    Those are all important questions. My original statement was IF it was true that he grabbed the neck and threaten to hit the kids in the head when in the closet, then he could be charged with child endangerment. If the kids swung first with a weapon, then self-defense would kick in and grabbing the neck could be allowed.
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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    What the kids did are not in doubt. However, this is a defense of property issue, not self-defense since the damage was being done to the house, not the person. Therefore, in NY deadly force is not allowed in those circumstances, as stated in NY Penal law,

    So, if grabbing the neck was seen to be deadly force, then the defense of property will not work. And FYI I do not consider a grown man grabbing a 10 year old by the neck, if true, to be mild physical restraint.
    What kind of stupid **** is this ? No one is alleging "deadly force". Another poster raised the other uninformed comparison to SYG and the Zimmerman case here in FL.

    No one has alleged that "grabbing a neck" was deadly force either. Otherwise, I don't give a **** what you consider it.

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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Those are all important questions. My original statement was IF it was true that he grabbed the neck and threaten to hit the kids in the head when in the closet, then he could be charged with child endangerment. If the kids swung first with a weapon, then self-defense would kick in and grabbing the neck could be allowed.
    Someone posted the rules and it appears you can put your hands on someone to protect your property there.

    Not sure a verbal threat is actually endangerment.

    I.would bet the charge comes from putting them in the closet, as child abuse takes that form sometimes. Sitting right outside til the cops got there seems to cover that.

    Isn't it more likely the parents are trying to get out of a ten grand a head bill?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    I don't think this has anything to do with being in a liberal state. I just think its NYPD overreacting because of threats over non-violent offenses.
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    Re: ..............NY man who says 4 kids vandalized home is charged

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Perhaps he didn't have any duct tape to hog tie them with. Closets are scary.

    Apparently seeing so many celebrities come running out of theirs' screaming to the heavens "Look at me! Look at me!"........

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