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Supreme Court strikes down Arizona voter ID citizenship law

jonny5 said:
Not legally or literally. A tax is a direct levy of property. Showing an ID is not.
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Not literally, but legally. Every single court that has taken a case like this has ruled that if the ID costs money, it's a poll tax. It doesn't matter that other things require ID to be shown. Buying beer is not the core fundamental right to democracy. Voting is, and our constitution says poll taxes are out of the question.

The ID requires money, and voting requires the ID, therefore voting requires money, which is exactly the thing that the constitution is trying to prevent. My compromise would be this: issue the ID's free of charge, at the voting precincts. That way nobody can be inconvenienced by being forced to make two trips. (which can be a real barrier if you are very poor) And it solves the poll tax issue. But this would cost money, and Republicans only support spending money in the name of election security when it's done in a way that will benefit their party.
 
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Deuce said:
Not literally, but legally. Every single court that has taken a case like this has ruled that if the ID costs money, it's a poll tax. It doesn't matter that other things require ID to be shown. Buying beer is not the core fundamental right to democracy. Voting is, and our constitution says poll taxes are out of the question.

The ID requires money, and voting requires the ID, therefore voting requires money, which is exactly the thing that the constitution is trying to prevent. My compromise would be this: issue the ID's free of charge, at the voting precincts. That way nobody can be inconvenienced by being forced to make two trips. (which can be a real barrier if you are very poor) And it solves the poll tax issue. But this would cost money, and Republicans only support spending money in the name of election security when it's done in a way that will benefit their party.
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Cite a case.
 
jonny5 said:
Cite a case.
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...you mean like the one that started this thread?

How about Texas v. Eric Holder in which a circuit court struck down a similar law in Texas?
Federal Court Strikes Down Texas Voter ID Law | Public Interest Law Center of Philadelphia

South Carolina law being struck down
https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2012cv0203-299

And Wisconsin
Voter ID Law Overturned For Second Time | WISN Home - WISN Home

edit: and an addendum, it does seem that not every case has directly overturned the ID laws. Some have just been temporary injunctions to investigate the potential impacts on voters.
 
Recent news about >25,000 people getting tax refunds in excess of $49 million, all at the same Atlanta, GA address. Now lets find out how many people from that address are registered democrat voters. Politics has become so dirty most people don't want to dirty their hands by getting involved.
 
GlenS said:
Recent news about >25,000 people getting tax refunds in excess of $49 million, all at the same Atlanta, GA address. Now lets find out how many people from that address are registered democrat voters. Politics has become so dirty most people don't want to dirty their hands by getting involved.
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What does this have to do with voter ID laws in Arizona?
 
Deuce said:
...you mean like the one that started this thread?

How about Texas v. Eric Holder in which a circuit court struck down a similar law in Texas?
Federal Court Strikes Down Texas Voter ID Law | Public Interest Law Center of Philadelphia

South Carolina law being struck down
https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2012cv0203-299

And Wisconsin
Voter ID Law Overturned For Second Time | WISN Home - WISN Home

edit: and an addendum, it does seem that not every case has directly overturned the ID laws. Some have just been temporary injunctions to investigate the potential impacts on voters.
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No, I mean like a case thats an examepl of "Every single court that has taken a case like this has ruled that if the ID costs money, it's a poll tax". The one that started this thread does not rule that. Neither does your second link. Neither does the news article.
 
Deuce said:
It is limited to US citizens. We're you under the impression this has changed?
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it is limited to people who say they are US citizens. If it were only opened to actual citizens, showing proof of citizenship would be a non issue.
 
How many, if any, say they are American citizens that arent and vote? See, it is a nonissue.
Imnukingfutz said:
it is limited to people who say they are US citizens. If it were only opened to actual citizens, showing proof of citizenship would be a non issue.
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mak2 said:
How many, if any, say they are American citizens that arent and vote? See, it is a nonissue.
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I dont know how many, but more and more cases of voter fraud is being uncovered and prosecuted.

What do you have against proving you are a citizen in order to register to vote?
 
Actually, I am all for it. But the default position should be to allow everyone to vote, but investigate and prosecute fully anyone who voted fraudlently. But by no means keep someone from voting who should be able to.
Imnukingfutz said:
I dont know how many, but more and more cases of voter fraud is being uncovered and prosecuted.

What do you have against proving you are a citizen in order to register to vote?
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mak2 said:
Actually, I am all for it. But the default position should be to allow everyone to vote, but investigate and prosecute fully anyone who voted fraudlently. But by no means keep someone from voting who should be able to.
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How does proving citizenship stop someone who is eligible to vote from voting?

And you can not allow everyone who wants to vote vote then sort it out later...What if we find out 2 years after an election that 20K people who arent eligible to vote actually did vote...and that the ineligible voters actually won the election for a candidate. Would two years of legislation, voting records etc have to be changed? What of the other ramifications? Do you leave the person in office that actually lost?

You need to make sure those that are voting meet the states requirements BEFORE the election occurs.
 
Imnukingfutz said:
How does proving citizenship stop someone who is eligible to vote from voting?

And you can not allow everyone who wants to vote vote then sort it out later...What if we find out 2 years after an election that 20K people who arent eligible to vote actually did vote...and that the ineligible voters actually won the election for a candidate. Would two years of legislation, voting records etc have to be changed? What of the other ramifications? Do you leave the person in office that actually lost?

You need to make sure those that are voting meet the states requirements BEFORE the election occurs.
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We check registration now. we just don't require you to buy ID.
 
captainawesome said:
We check registration now. we just don't require you to buy ID.
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Virginia makes you prove citizenship to get a state issued ID....or to register to vote.

What ID do you have to buy to prove you are a citizen?

A copy of your birth certificate is free (if you dont already have one) if for a state requirement (drivers license, court order whatever). We had to get one for our son's driving permit....and it had to come from NJ. My wife had to get a copy of hers from Guam...it was free also.

So...what cost is there to prove citizenship?
 
Imnukingfutz said:
Virginia makes you prove citizenship to get a state issued ID....or to register to vote.

What ID do you have to buy to prove you are a citizen?

A copy of your birth certificate is free (if you dont already have one) if for a state requirement (drivers license, court order whatever). We had to get one for our son's driving permit....and it had to come from NJ. My wife had to get a copy of hers from Guam...it was free also.

So...what cost is there to prove citizenship?
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ID costs money.

I did not show ID to register to vote.
 
captainawesome said:
We check registration now. we just don't require you to buy ID.
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And SCOTUS intimated (even the liberal end of the bench) that the current honor system is not enough.

If they devise a system that does not incur costs, and can ensure the person voting is the one that registered, that would be fine.

I think Indiana currently has a decent system in place, with free ID available.
 
Imnukingfutz said:
Virginia makes you prove citizenship to get a state issued ID....or to register to vote.

What ID do you have to buy to prove you are a citizen?

A copy of your birth certificate is free (if you dont already have one) if for a state requirement (drivers license, court order whatever). We had to get one for our son's driving permit....and it had to come from NJ. My wife had to get a copy of hers from Guam...it was free also.

So...what cost is there to prove citizenship?
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Hate to pick nits but in California you have to have the long form birth certificate, the certificate of live birth which has an attached cost of 50$ at least. Most of the illegals show Oregon or Washington IDs, at least in Cali.
 
captainawesome said:
ID costs money.

I did not show ID to register to vote.
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Ids don't cost money. Most states give them out for free if you can show financial hardship. And again, I would have no problem with simply putting a photo on your voter registration card, which are 'free'.
 
OpportunityCost said:
And SCOTUS intimated (even the liberal end of the bench) that the current honor system is not enough.

If they devise a system that does not incur costs, and can ensure the person voting is the one that registered, that would be fine.

I think Indiana currently has a decent system in place, with free ID available.
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we don't register on the honor system.

ID is not free.
 
jonny5 said:
Ids don't cost money. Most states give them out for free if you can show financial hardship. And again, I would have no problem with simply putting a photo on your voter registration card, which are 'free'.
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ID is not free.

The way we do it now seems fine to me. I fill out the form. They check I am a legal resident and then I vote.

Our system works well.
 
captainawesome said:
ID is not free.

The way we do it now seems fine to me. I fill out the form. They check I am a legal resident and then I vote.

Our system works well.
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ID is free for those who need it to be. How do we know you are the person who registered?
 
jonny5 said:
ID is free for those who need it to be. How do we know you are the person who registered?
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ID is not free.

As for as knowing if I am the voter. I know my pricinct and SSN number.
 
jonny5 said:
You dont have to provide your SSN to vote. So how do WE know that you are the person who registered to vote?
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I have registered and voted for years. it is easy and secure.

As far as "we" that's irrelevant. If I show up to vote and someone stole my vote there is already a procedure. That is good enough.
 
captainawesome said:
we don't register on the honor system.

ID is not free.
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Secretary of State : Election Division: Obtaining a Photo ID

Obtaining a Photo ID

If you do not possess an ID that is acceptable for voting purposes, Public Law 109-2005 requires the BMV to issue an Indiana State ID Card for free.
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I really wish you wouldnt parrot misinformation without at least attempting to get a source. ID IS FREE in Indiana if you need it to vote.

Stop parroting talking points.
 
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