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Supreme Court strikes down Arizona voter ID citizenship law

You just made the point yourself. You only do fly byes, and don't demand people look at dissents, if it is something that SCOTUS rules on that goes your way, but of course, you demand that people look at the dissents if the decision does not go your way on something you DO support. It is stated in your own words, that I have just quoted for posterity.

Listen, you brought abortion into the conversation, and I responded appropriately in that it's a subject that doesn't really interest me. I don't demand people look at the dissents (I can only lead a horse to water...), but if you were to, you might see the sound Constitutional reasoning behind it...
 
Listen, you brought abortion into the conversation, and I responded appropriately in that it's a subject that doesn't really interest me. I don't demand people look at the dissents (I can only lead a horse to water...), but if you were to, you might see the sound Constitutional reasoning behind it...

Like you see the Constitutional reasoning behind abortion decisions? Yea, right.
 
Yes. I have seen some figures that a very teeny tiny number of people are convicted of voter fraud. And they are punished under the law for those offenses. And that is how it should be.

We had a particularly ugly case of election fraud here in Michigan that went on for several years undetected until it was discovered.

Thaddeus McCotter petition fraud case fallout: How does Michigan stamp out fraud? | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

So why are we then embracing new restrictions on voting for ALL PEOPLE in order to combat a rather tiny problem that is already being dealt with in the law today?

The fact that it keeps happening indiciates it isnt being dealth with. And it would be nieve to assume that there isnt more happening that isnt being caught. How exactly is proving your identity a restriction? We do it all the time, to access our money, get on a plane, drive a car. What harm is done by requiring peopel to show a ID when they vote?
 
The fact that it keeps happening indiciates it isnt being dealth with. And it would be nieve to assume that there isnt more happening that isnt being caught. How exactly is proving your identity a restriction? We do it all the time, to access our money, get on a plane, drive a car. What harm is done by requiring peopel to show a ID when they vote?

Poor people usually don't have photo ID because they cannot afford to obtain the documentation required, and can't afford to pay for the ID. That amounts to a poll tax.

However, if state governments want to assume the costs for people to obtain photo ID, for the purpose of voting, then I would be in favor of requiring ID when registering to vote.
 
The fact that it keeps happening indiciates it isnt being dealth with.

WHAT!!!! :doh Where do you get that from? :shock:

We have laws and we deal with it.
 
That seems like a lot of time, money, and manpower to address a non-existent or, at minimum, microscopic problem. I've never heard of a single case of in-person voter fraud at the polls. The problem has always been with absentee ballots. How are ID laws going to resolve anonymous fraud?

I agree that the whole voter fraud issue is not really a significant problem. But if we have to impose an ID requirement there should be funding for education and outreach and time given for voters to comply, as usually happens with new regulations affecting business.

Requiring IDs to register might reduce some absentee voter fraud. But, again, its probably not a big enough problem to bother.
 
Poor people usually don't have photo ID because they cannot afford to obtain the documentation required, and can't afford to pay for the ID. That amounts to a poll tax.

However, if state governments want to assume the costs for people to obtain photo ID, for the purpose of voting, then I would be in favor of requiring ID when registering to vote.

Poor people have IDs. That's how they get welfare, alcohol, all manner of things. They have cars, they have drivers licenses. However, I have no problem with providing them an ID in the form of a voter registration card with a photo on it.
 
:2wave: Its LOGICAL!!!!!!. If we were dealing with it, it would stop. :3oops:

What is logical about pretending that passing a law against something and enforcing it when lawbreakers are convicted prevents it from every happening again?
 
Poor people have IDs. That's how they get welfare, alcohol, all manner of things. They have cars, they have drivers licenses. However, I have no problem with providing them an ID in the form of a voter registration card with a photo on it.

So, if someone is poor, you automatically assume that he or she is on welfare, and drinks alcohol all the time?
 
This is another one of those facts the far right wing in this country knows that no one else in the world understands.
So, if someone is poor, you automatically assume that he or she is on welfare, and drinks alcohol all the time?
 
Poor people have IDs. That's how they get welfare, alcohol, all manner of things. They have cars, they have drivers licenses. However, I have no problem with providing them an ID in the form of a voter registration card with a photo on it.

Not true. My dads family is from West Virginia. He had 8 brothers and sisters. They were poor. I have two uncles that never had id and one that didnt even get a social security number. That is not unheard of there.
 
So, if someone is poor, you automatically assume that he or she is on welfare, and drinks alcohol all the time?

Its a safe assumption. But more to the point, show me a poor person who cant afford a $10 ID.
 
Not true. My dads family is from West Virginia. He had 8 brothers and sisters. They were poor. I have two uncles that never had id and one that didnt even get a social security number. That is not unheard of there.

Was it because they were poor, or because they chose not to? The former is what was claimed.
 
Looks like the only thing left to say is: "Welcome home, Mexico!" :wcm
 
Its a safe assumption. But more to the point, show me a poor person who cant afford a $10 ID.

10 bucks might be chump change to you or me, but to a lot of poor people, it's food for a couple of days, and a barrier to them getting ID. And that kind of a barrier amounts to a poll tax. That kind of modern Jim Crow ain't gonna fly.
 
10 bucks might be chump change to you or me, but to a lot of poor people, it's food for a couple of days.

Its chump change to a lot of poor people too. Again, show me a poor person who cant afford $10. Ive seen poor people getting $10 an hour begging for it outside walmart. Poor in this country means anywhere up to $10,000 a year.
 
They were so poor they couldnt afford $10? Is it possible they spent $10 on something else that they didnt need, which could have gone to getting an ID?

It isnt just the 10. There is expense in time. He worked in coal mines. He couldnt just take off work to travel to Charleston to get a birth certificate. The expense of travel. Many formes. Explaining why you didnt get one before.
This process can take a lot of time and effort and money.
 
It isnt just the 10. There is expense in time. He worked in coal mines. He couldnt just take off work to travel to Charleston to get a birth certificate. The expense of travel. Many formes. Explaining why you didnt get one before.
This process can take a lot of time and effort and money.

Youre just making excuses now.
 
It isnt just the 10. There is expense in time. He worked in coal mines. He couldnt just take off work to travel to Charleston to get a birth certificate. The expense of travel. Many formes. Explaining why you didnt get one before.
This process can take a lot of time and effort and money.

I agree. When my wife lost her ID a few years ago, when her purse was snatched, this is what we had to do....

1) Get her birth certificate from Minnesota. Cost of that was 25 bucks.

2) Get another Social Security card. Cost was free, but we had to wait 6 hours at the Social Security office. Card came in the mail about 3 weeks later.

3) Go to the DMV and get photo ID. Cost of that was another 16 bucks, and took 2 more hours. Glad we have a car, because there are no bus lines there. A cab would have cost us another 30 bucks. Didn't get photo ID that time, because SS card and birth certificate was not enough. They wanted proof that my wife lived at the address listed. Had to go back home and find 2 pieces of mail addressed to her. Luckily we found that. Went back to DMV and got in line for about 1 hour this time.

4) Temporary ID was given her, and Photo ID came in the mail about a month later.

The whole process was a huge pain in the ass.
 
I agree. When my wife lost her ID a few years ago, when her purse was snatched, this is what we had to do....

1) Get her birth certificate from Minnesota. Cost of that was 25 bucks.

2) Get another Social Security card. Cost was free, but we had to wait 6 hours at the Social Security office. Card came in the mail about 3 weeks later.

3) Go to the DMV and get photo ID. Cost of that was another 16 bucks, and took 2 more hours. Glad we have a car, because there are no bus lines there. A cab would have cost us another 30 bucks. Didn't get photo ID that time, because SS card and birth certificate was not enough. They wanted proof that my wife lived at the address listed. Had to go back home and find 2 pieces of mail addressed to her. Luckily we found that. Went back to DMV and got in line for about 1 hour this time.

4) Temporary ID was given her, and Photo ID came in the mail about a month later.

The whole process was a huge pain in the ass.

Imagine if you were born at home 60 years ago and didnt get a ss number. It is very hard to get these things done and far more expensive than $10
 
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