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IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases [W:127]

Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
Of course the buck stops here. I don't know if President Obama has shirked from that responsibility. But you know it not humanily possible for one person to know everything that is happening around them. Heck some people in President Bush's immediate staff were talking to reporters about a covert CIA agent and he didn't seem to know it. So I don't see how you could expect President Obama to know what was happening in a IRS office in Cincinnati. I don't see how anyone would know how they conduct they their business. The growing demand for the 501c4 non-profit status is what caused the problem, the IRS were unable to handle it. The management at the IRS has been changed and that's all anyone can expect President Obama to do.
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The buck stops here means he takes responsibility for those underneath him. Thats called authority and leadership. Hes been a lot more concerned with political damage control than getting the investigation completed. Isnt Shulman still well involved with the current admin? I really dont know.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

Another Obama hate thread that goes on clanking and clattering and chugging and limping along on three wheels that just refuses to fall off the tracks.

Racists and haters just blowing smoke up a dead dog's a**.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

Michael66 said:
Another Obama hate thread that goes on clanking and clattering and chugging and limping along on three wheels that just refuses to fall off the tracks.

Racists and haters just blowing smoke up a dead dog's a**.
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here we are again. cant win the argument on merit out comes the race card. So if you disagree with a black man your racist, if you hold a black man responsible like you would any other man your a racist.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

OpportunityCost said:
So your thought is that Obama is not held responsible for anything because you believe Bush wasnt? How many different ways do you want me to shred that? If you really want to discuss it, start a new thread.

Back to the topic at hand---if you believe that the President cannot possibly be responsible for everything that occurs, that would be a good argument for two things: stronger oversight and less government. Internal investigations and IG inspections arent getting the job done and the stonewalling that has been occurring just makes the administration look guilty.
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Was Bush held responsible for the leaking of Valerie Plame's identity? Hell no, he let Cheney's Chief of Staff
Scooter Libby take the fall.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
Was Bush held responsible for the leaking of Valerie Plame's identity? Hell no, he let Cheney's Chief of Staff
Scooter Libby take the fall.
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Except Richard Armitage was the leaker. Pete, if you would try to address the topic in this century instead of your incessant, monotonous, moronic cry of

BBBBBBOOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHH!!! that would be great!
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

OpportunityCost said:
Except Richard Armitage was the leaker. Pete, if you would try to address the topic in this century instead of your incessant, monotonous, moronic cry of

BBBBBBOOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHH!!! that would be great!
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I am trying to make a point here. Didn't Richard Armitage work under President Bush just as the IRS workers of today work under President Obama?
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
I am trying to make a point here. Didn't Richard Armitage work under President Bush just as the IRS workers of today work under President Obama?
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LOL Ill give you some rope.
1. Armitage did this in secret.
2. He told the SoS at the time, who hid it.
3. It wound up costing the SoS his job.
4. Bush cooperated fully with the investigation.

So you want to make a moral comparison between the two? A systemic use of fed resources to blunt the President's political opponents in an election year versus a leak Bush didnt even know about. If you really think those two things are morally equivalent you are a partisan through and through Pete. The political culture in the IRS and most federal agencies is thoroughly dem and thoroughly liberal. Look back at your own response: liberals are more likely to act in the social welfare.....according to who? Why according to the liberal echo chamber, thats who. Its absurd.

You want apples to apples, picture the IRS under Bush doing this. You would be howling for his head on a pike. The difference is....so would I. The IRS cannot become a politcal tool like this and its up to the President and those he appoints to make sure it doesnt. Lerner, Paz and WH counsel didnt seem to do those things and more than one of them is caught in lies in one instance or another.

As I said before the culture starts at the top. Obama is a rank partisan thug from Chicago and this IS how things are done in Chicago. If I knew nothing else about Obama other than he was from Chicago, I wouldnt be able to vote for him---even if he were a republican, because no one comes out of Chicago with their hands clean. No one.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

OpportunityCost said:
LOL Ill give you some rope.
1. Armitage did this in secret.
2. He told the SoS at the time, who hid it.
3. It wound up costing the SoS his job.
4. Bush cooperated fully with the investigation.

So you want to make a moral comparison between the two? A systemic use of fed resources to blunt the President's political opponents in an election year versus a leak Bush didnt even know about. If you really think those two things are morally equivalent you are a partisan through and through Pete. The political culture in the IRS and most federal agencies is thoroughly dem and thoroughly liberal. Look back at your own response: liberals are more likely to act in the social welfare.....according to who? Why according to the liberal echo chamber, thats who. Its absurd.

You want apples to apples, picture the IRS under Bush doing this. You would be howling for his head on a pike. The difference is....so would I. The IRS cannot become a politcal tool like this and its up to the President and those he appoints to make sure it doesnt. Lerner, Paz and WH counsel didnt seem to do those things and more than one of them is caught in lies in one instance or another.

As I said before the culture starts at the top. Obama is a rank partisan thug from Chicago and this IS how things are done in Chicago. If I knew nothing else about Obama other than he was from Chicago, I wouldnt be able to vote for him---even if he were a republican, because no one comes out of Chicago with their hands clean. No one.
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LOL You are claiming President Obama used the IRS to blunt his political opponents with zero evidence. None, you have a suspicion because he is from Chicago?

Richard Armitage wasn't the only one that leaked Plame's identity, Karl Rove and Scooter Libby were in it as well. In fact the reason Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald got involved was because Libby gave false (he lied) information to the FBI.

Here is the transcript of Fitzgerald's presser after Libby was indicted.

Transcript of Special Counsel Fitzgerald's Press Conference
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
LOL You are claiming President Obama used the IRS to blunt his political opponents with zero evidence. None, you have a suspicion because he is from Chicago?

Richard Armitage wasn't the only one that leaked Plame's identity, Karl Rove and Scooter Libby were in it as well. In fact the reason Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald got involved was because Libby gave false (he lied) information to the FBI.

Here is the transcript of Fitzgerald's presser after Libby was indicted.

Transcript of Special Counsel Fitzgerald's Press Conference
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NO. Its his job to make sure it does NOT.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
LOL You are claiming President Obama used the IRS to blunt his political opponents with zero evidence. None, you have a suspicion because he is from Chicago?

Richard Armitage wasn't the only one that leaked Plame's identity, Karl Rove and Scooter Libby were in it as well. In fact the reason Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald got involved was because Libby gave false (he lied) information to the FBI.

Here is the transcript of Fitzgerald's presser after Libby was indicted.

Transcript of Special Counsel Fitzgerald's Press Conference
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Pete, no offense but no ****in way am I going after this bull**** red herring of endless proportions you are pushing at me.

I refuse to argue this topic in this thread because its such a blatant attempt at a derail that you ought to be ashamed of yourself to even bloody try it.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

OpportunityCost said:
Pete, no offense but no ****in way am I going after this bull**** red herring of endless proportions you are pushing at me.

I refuse to argue this topic in this thread because its such a blatant attempt at a derail that you ought to be ashamed of yourself to even bloody try it.
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Fair enough, but prove President Obama used the IRS against his political opponents beyond your partisan BS. Otherwise, I'm done with you.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
Fair enough, but prove President Obama used the IRS against his political opponents beyond your partisan BS. Otherwise, I'm done with you.
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Thats just it Pete. I dont have to.

I keep driving at the idea of culture. Obama crafted a culture in his administration of politics over ethics. Your own words pointed that out, liberals only think they are capable of acting in the public interest. Political targeting was allowed because it wasnt believed to be political.

I cant even imagine a group of conservatives crafting the same policy and acting in the same way towards liberals, they know they would be caught, they know the fallout that would happen.

The ethics system failed, the higher ups failed, you hold Obama responsible because hes the boss. Because the culture is HIS responsibility, because the people that were supposed to prevent such a thing were HIS handpicked people. Now hes impeding the investigation. Ethics, Pete, ethics.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

OpportunityCost said:
Thats just it Pete. I dont have to.

I keep driving at the idea of culture. Obama crafted a culture in his administration of politics over ethics. Your own words pointed that out, liberals only think they are capable of acting in the public interest. Political targeting was allowed because it wasnt believed to be political.

I cant even imagine a group of conservatives crafting the same policy and acting in the same way towards liberals, they know they would be caught, they know the fallout that would happen.

The ethics system failed, the higher ups failed, you hold Obama responsible because hes the boss. Because the culture is HIS responsibility, because the people that were supposed to prevent such a thing were HIS handpicked people. Now hes impeding the investigation. Ethics, Pete, ethics.
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More of your partisan Bull****...
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
More of your partisan Bull****...
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You DONT think its the Presidents responsibility to make sure the IRS doesnt target his political enemies?
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
Fair enough, but prove President Obama used the IRS against his political opponents beyond your partisan BS. Otherwise, I'm done with you.
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means motive and opportunity gives any one the right to make a logical speculation that it is likely he is involved. only the ones so drunk on the Obama Koolaid they are not able to connect the dots
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
You want to hold President Obama accountable for something he knew nothing about, yet you are willing to dismiss the fact that President Bush possibly knew something... that members of his inner circle gave reporters classified information.
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I see the moral hazards as being different as well as the investigations, the reactions to them and the ethics involved towards both investigations.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

trfjr said:
means motive and opportunity gives any one the right to make a logical speculation that it is likely he is involved. only the ones so drunk on the Obama Koolaid they are not able to connect the dots
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Hey, free speech give you the right to say almost anything, that doesn't mean it's correct. And I'm not the one drinking the Koolaid, it's the partisan folks on the right drinking it. You might have the motive and means to seal merchandise from a store, that doesn't mean you are a suspect unless you are watch Perry Mason.

Hard evidence, Hard evidence.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

OpportunityCost said:
I see the moral hazards as being different as well as the investigations, the reactions to them and the ethics involved towards both investigations.
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The fact that Valerie Plame's identity was leaked could have gotten someone killed.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

OpportunityCost said:
You DONT think its the Presidents responsibility to make sure the IRS doesnt target his political enemies?
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I think its his responsibility is to make sure all the departments under him do their job ethically. What happened at the IRS appears to me to be nothing more than a giant screw up, especially since the manager is a self described conservative Republican. He should remove anyone who has put politics in their job.

IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer - Toledo Blade
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
The fact that Valerie Plame's identity was leaked could have gotten someone killed.
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Thats your opinion. And you should take more away from my comment than further attempts to derail this thread.
 
Re: IRS supervisor in DC scrutinized tea party cases

pbrauer said:
I think its his responsibility is to make sure all the departments under him do their job ethically. What happened at the IRS appears to me to be nothing more than a giant screw up, especially since the manager is a self described conservative Republican. He should remove anyone who has put politics in their job.

IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer - Toledo Blade
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Like his own Counsel? Who knew about it and according to your narrative, didnt inform him.
Like Lois Lerner? Who has shown partisan based ethical issues before?
Why are we supposed to believe this was limited to one department?

God Pete, I just want more information released, emails and such that show who was talking to who and what information were they conveying. You may be convinced we have the whole story, I am not. There are too many holes about where information went in DC and how high up it went. And the administration has been less than forthcoming with that info.
 
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