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Thread: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Too bad America wasn't smart enough to send the Community Organizer in Chief back to Chicago last November where he might have actually had something to offer.
    yeah, this just proves if you hand out enough freebies anyone can get re-elected

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    yeah, this just proves if you hand out enough freebies anyone can get re-elected
    Heya RM. Which doesn't Count Chicago Pols using those bangers to get out and vote either.

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Here is an interesting Piece DH.....on Do Drugs make a Gang or do gangs make drugs.

    This conversation about drug legalization was long and wide ranging. One possible view is that gangs exist wherever there is poverty; if it isn't drugs, it's sugar or milk or whatever they can control. The essential ingredient for gangs, in this view, is a large supply of young men with few alternatives in the legal economy.

    I've been thinking a lot about this over the last few days. It still seems to me that gangs are hard to support when there is good policing. Gangs flourish in places like Rio because the police force is corrupt and doesn't care about the favela inhabitants. They flourish in drugs and prostitution because contracts are not legally enforceable--if you can't sue to get the drugs you're owed, you need to use violence. Since there is safety in numbers, you get a gang.

    As it happens, I'm reading The Bottom Billion, Paul Collier's excellent book on poverty traps in the developing world. As you can imagine, it has something to say on the subject of lawless bands of young men preying on the populace. A lot of it backs up the first position. "Civil war," Collier says, is much more likely to break out in low-income countries: halve the starting income of the country and you double the risk of civil war."

    . . . according to psychologists, on average about 3 percent of any population have psychopathic tendencies, so you can be sure that some of those in the recruitment line will be psychopaths. Others will be attracted by the prospect of power and riches, however unlikely; if the reality of daily existence is otherwise awful, the chances of success to not have to be very high to be alluring. Even a small chance of the good life as a successful rebel becomes worth taking, despite the high risk of death, because the prospect of death is not so much worse than the prospect of life in poverty.

    So what characteristics did make people more likely to engage in political violence? Well, the three big ones were being young, being uneducated, and being without dependents. Try as one might, it is difficult to reconcile these characteristics of recruitment with an image of a vanguard of fighters for social justice.

    So at least in the early stages, this seems to indicate that legalizing drugs wouldn't reduce crime too much; indeed, by disrupting a somewhat stable market, it might increase crime.

    And where are the violent groups most likely to form? One might think it would be in the districts that are most deprived of social amenities, for that is supposedly what it is all about--oil wealth being stolen by the oil companies and the federal government instead of being used for the benefit of local communities. But Aderoju found that . . . there was no relationship between the social amenities that a district possessed and its propensity to political violence. Instead, the violence occurred in the districts with oil wells.

    On the one hand you argued that the drug wars implied huge wasted rents leading to crime. On the other you cite Levitt etc on the low returns to drug dealing. These two positions cannot be reconciled. If there are mostly winner take all rents in drug dealing, and the average returns are small, then the artificial rents due to drug control cannot, ipso facto, be large. Thus, one has to ask, if small rents with winner-take-all markets are sufficient to generate this huge amount of crime, then (probably) smaller rents due to legalization (and having to find substitutes) should still be sufficient to generate gang problems in the absence of a cure to the policing problems in poor areas with dysfunctional groups.....snip~

    Do drugs make gangs, or do gangs make drugs? - Megan McArdle - The Atlantic

    Whatcha thinks DH?
    Being young, male, with no dependents i.e. no responsibilities except to yourself, and being without education or any real prospects for the future is to be easily recruited for a gang, that's for sure. Interestingly enough, those same characteristics describe most of the radical jihadis as well, or at least the new recruits, but that's another issue (or is it?)

    And, i suppose you could make the point that gangs also promote drug abuse, but then, that's no different from any profit making enterprise promoting their products.

    But, it's difficult to see how gangs could make the kind of money they make in illegal drugs by cornering the market on milk.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post


    "The only difference between a derelict and a man is a job"

    Great! a basketball league and that will solve everything! Wait,,,they HAVE the basketball league and still had the 7 dead and 32 wounded. Oh...and lets not forget how easily those 'basketball leagues' could get exploited.

    lots of changes have to happen. Yes...absolutely...economic opportunites, better education, a communtiy willing to tell the assholes no more and stop defending criminal behavior with excuses, and draconian prison sentences for people that refuse to get the message.

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Being young, male, with no dependents i.e. no responsibilities except to yourself, and being without education or any real prospects for the future is to be easily recruited for a gang, that's for sure. Interestingly enough, those same characteristics describe most of the radical jihadis as well, or at least the new recruits, but that's another issue (or is it?)

    And, i suppose you could make the point that gangs also promote drug abuse, but then, that's no different from any profit making enterprise promoting their products.

    But, it's difficult to see how gangs could make the kind of money they make in illegal drugs by cornering the market on milk.
    Similar to running cheap diseased prostitutes for 5-10 bucks a blowjob, all they have to do is offer a cheaper product. If they build it, people will come.

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Similar to running cheap diseased prostitutes for 5-10 bucks a blowjob, all they have to do is offer a cheaper product. If they build it, people will come.
    That's the other part of the equation: the market for the "services" provided by the gangs. We have the most drug addled population on the planet, and, yes, there is a market for cheap whores. The question becomes one of how to reduce that market. What drives it? Is it really just moral depravity, or is there something else?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's the other part of the equation: the market for the "services" provided by the gangs. We have the most drug addled population on the planet, and, yes, there is a market for cheap whores. The question becomes one of how to reduce that market. What drives it? Is it really just moral depravity, or is there something else?
    Considering the fact that prostitutes are well known as the worlds oldest profession (I think 'Politician' is a branch of that occupation) and that we have always sought a way and means of getting high, Id have to say it was part of human nature. People from extreme poverty seek immediate gratification and hunt 'the high'. So do people from extreme financial prosperity.

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Being young, male, with no dependents i.e. no responsibilities except to yourself, and being without education or any real prospects for the future is to be easily recruited for a gang, that's for sure. Interestingly enough, those same characteristics describe most of the radical jihadis as well, or at least the new recruits, but that's another issue (or is it?)

    And, i suppose you could make the point that gangs also promote drug abuse, but then, that's no different from any profit making enterprise promoting their products.

    But, it's difficult to see how gangs could make the kind of money they make in illegal drugs by cornering the market on milk.
    Heya DH. I think the Milk is like an exaggeration but then anything with Vices would be game. Another Business one will see go up is the making of papers and False identification. Forgers.....we would definitely see more burglaries and thefts. Home Invasions etc etc.

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's the other part of the equation: the market for the "services" provided by the gangs. We have the most drug addled population on the planet, and, yes, there is a market for cheap whores. The question becomes one of how to reduce that market. What drives it? Is it really just moral depravity, or is there something else?
    Poverty, brotherhood, being part of something bigger than ones self. Believe it or not the Gang Organizations do have a code or Laws that they live by. Which is still founded on principles, depending on the Organization as to which ones are which.

    I don't know how they can reduce the game within Prostitution tho. For some girls and women it is a way out of that hood. Those that go beyond being a Street-walker.

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    Re: 7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Poverty, brotherhood, being part of something bigger than ones self. Believe it or not the Gang Organizations do have a code or Laws that they live by. Which is still founded on principles, depending on the Organization as to which ones are which.

    I don't know how they can reduce the game within Prostitution tho. For some girls and women it is a way out of that hood. Those that go beyond being a Street-walker.
    Being a part of something bigger than oneself used to mean family, church perhaps, the military for some, but family for sure.

    The root of a lot of our social ills lies with the decline of the family as the basic unit of society.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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