Page 99 of 159 FirstFirst ... 4989979899100101109149 ... LastLast
Results 981 to 990 of 1585

Thread: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

  1. #981
    Sage
    Ontologuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    5,516

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    In bold. Prove your position. Links are required.
    Rather than knee-jerking your oppositional defiance, you would have done well to read the poll reference I presented that validates the obvious reality I presented.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  2. #982
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    29,023

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    It's not about any "valid effort made to pass such a thing on the federal level", as that must be initiated by the states, not the fed.
    In order to get federal benefits, it would need to be initiated by the federal government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Your statement "Even most of the states that passed same sex civil unions just went ahead and opened up marriage to same sex couples" is a contradiction. Thus it is unlikely that any state ever did create the non-marriage civil union domestic partnerships you allege .. so I'll call you on that one: please provide proof, not only that those were ever created and called something other than marriage, but then later they were deleted/abandoned and replaced with SS marriage statutes. This should not be too hard for you, as only a handful of states now have SS marriage statutes.
    There have been many states that give civil unions to same sex partners. Vermont was the first, but not the last.

    Civil union in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Two more states allow same-sex civil unions - CNN.com

    Civil Unions and Domestic Partnership Statutes

    Same sex civil unions have been replaced in at least 5 states so far with just marriage. Another 4 states offer civil unions for same sex couples and at least two of those we have seen a solid push for marriage access.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Thus your statement of "they recognize the foolishness ..." is merely a contrived fantasy.
    Not a fantasy at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Also, your statement that "ss marriage has grown to over 50% acceptance ..." is blatantly false, as proven by the link I presented a page or so back that shows without any rational conjecture that only 37% favor SS "marriage" andthat 63% are opposed to it.
    Wrong. Because you cannot show how many of those who would prefer a union not named marriage would settle for them having marriage if that was the only option (as it should be). You can't logically claim all of those on your side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    The fact that there are no SS homarriage statutes on state books would be because SS activists thought that would take too long, and so they opted for the hijacking of marriage.

    Clearly, according to the poll results, that hasn't been successful, and is not likely to be successful nationally.

    Activists would have a better chance at getting SS recognition if they followed public sentiment and stumped hard for SS homarriage statues in every state.

    Then the fed would instantly prepare for it.

    It really is that simple and that obvious.
    All of this is wrong and has been shown so. There have been states and still are some with same sex civil unions legal in some states, and many of those have already legalized access of same sex couples to marriage. Even those that have civil unions only now are looking to just allow same sex couples access to marriage. You can argue all you want, but this is a fact.

    Plus, despite your noise about this, many of those states that ban same sex marriage also ban same sex civil unions/partnerships of any kind. So those laws would have to be changed either way. Might as well go for marriage and not waste taxpayer money on the stop-gap that has been shown to be a stop-gap only in several cases so far, and likely in the rest of the state in the near future.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #983
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 12:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,691

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Here you exhibit typical ideologue fantasizing.

    You present the poll question that validates precisely what I stated, that 63% oppose the word "marriage" applying to SS couples...
    You can't make that conclusion from the poll.

    What the poll shows is:

    1) Detailed support for three options: 37% for legal marriage, 33% for legal partnership, and 25% for no recognition (2012)
    2) 70% support legal status for same sex couples (2012)
    3) 53% of those supporting legal status for same sex couples favor legal marriage (37%/70%) (2012) [Redress's point]

    To reach your conclusion, one would need to ask respondents to choose between legal marriage or no recognition. Some share of those supporting legal partnership would almost certainly choose legal marriage when confronted by a choice between marriage or no recognition. If only 42% of those who chose legal partnership selected marriage when asked to choose between marriage and non-recognition, marriage would garner more than 50% overall support. Very likely, a majority of those choosing legal partnership would shift to support for marriage under those circumstances, as they already oppose non-recognition.

    Not surprisingly, a June 2013 Washington Post/ABC News poll found exactly that outcome: 57% of adults favored legal marriage for same sex couples and 40% opposed it.

    Do you support or oppose allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally? - The Washington Post

  4. #984
    Sage
    Ontologuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    5,516

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Thank you. You just proved your position incorrect. Here is your claim:



    So, you said that of those people who support SS couples partnerships, A SIGNIFICANT MAJORITY OF THEM PREFER THAT A DIFFERENT NAME BE USED.

    ...

    So, what do we learn from THIS poll? Same as we've learned from the other two. Ontologuy's assertion was patently false and he spoke before doing his homework... a common theme with him. In this poll, of those who support SS partnerships, a STRONG MAJORITY support calling it marriage over civil unions.
    As we all know, most people when contacted by pollsters say "no thanks", and on this subject, liberals jump at the chance, so all of these polls are naturally skewed in favor of the oxymoronic SS marriage .. thus, from a nationwide perspective, you have to reduce the SS "marriage" support by about 15-20 or so in the percentage number to approximate the nation as a whole .. I mean you do if actual reality is important to you.

    In this case, when asked about "gay marriage" most centrists and conservatives are either unreachable or decline to state, and these are people who would be opposed to "marriage" but in support of "homarriage", especially the centrists, the great majority of Americans.

    Nevertheless, none of the poll questions validated your point, as they would have to be phrased "if given a choice between only SS "marriage" and CUDPs for SS couples called something other than "marriage", what would you prefer".

    The answer to that question would validate my point that the great majority would answer "other than the word "marriage"".

    Reality reamains, as you so at-length diverted in our oppositional defiant rant, is that for SS activists to get across-the-nation state recognition for SS couples, their best chance is the "homarriage" route, obviously.

    When you factor in the non-response-to-poll people, that becomes even more obvious.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  5. #985
    Guru

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    10-01-17 @ 10:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,498

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    The decision that was rendered today, does not give you gay marriage...
    But the oligarchists in state supreme courts will give it to you. My concern is: these SSC oligarchists fully use their state constitutions and not fully use their ideologies; that empathy for SSM advocates is completely removed from their decision.

    I agree with the SCOTUS striking down the section of DOMA that prevents SSM (I also agree with SS unions) members from receiving federal benefits. Or, if the matter came up, I would agree with SSM members and SS union members receiving state, local, whatever benefits, as well.
    Last edited by cabse5; 06-27-13 at 12:08 PM.

  6. #986
    Sage
    Ontologuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    5,516

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Whatever your intention it is derogatory. Nobody assigned you the authority to name same sex relationships. Where do you think you get off coming up with a term like that and ascribing it to people without their consent? Do really feel that superior?

    Centrist? Don't make me laugh. Not even far right publications like WND make up derogatory terms for SSM, they just put marriage in quotes to designate they do not recognize it. Your language is insulting and tyrannical.


    Typical of SS oxymoronic ideologues -- someone tries to help them create a win-win in a losing situation, and rather than admit to their own faults of stealing something that doesn't belong to them, they simply whine against the people trying to help them.

    That's called hypocrisy, CT.

    Reality remains that, as the polls show, polls answered mostly be those aligning with the liberal faction, only 37% support SS "marriage", meaning that 63% oppose it .. but if you change the wording to "homarriage" or the relevant like, support jumps to 70%!

    You are perhaps forgetting that in CA's Prop 8, though the state itself is run by liberals, Prop 8 passed! And why? Because the Black community, normally that sides with liberals on most all of the other issues, was hugely in favor of Prop 8!

    You would do well, if state recognition success is your goal, to consider a more reasonable approach.

    But if the logically accurate and relevant term "homarriage" isn't to your liking, please tell me what term in place of "marriage" would be acceptable to you for SS CUDPs (Civil Union Domestic Partnership).
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  7. #987
    Guru

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    10-01-17 @ 10:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,498

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    What do Libertarians, who revere Thomas Jefferson, think about this SSM decree by SSCs? Are you conflicted?

    I know Libertarians don't want the US gov't to prevent anyone from being anything they want to be, but what if SSM is not agreed to by the people of the state?
    That a small number of people, SSC judges, are deciding the fate of this issue for everyone in the state?

  8. #988
    Sage
    Ontologuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    5,516

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    You can't make that conclusion from the poll.

    What the poll shows is:

    1) Detailed support for three options: 37% for legal marriage, 33% for legal partnership, and 25% for no recognition (2012)
    2) 70% support legal status for same sex couples (2012)
    3) 53% of those supporting legal status for same sex couples favor legal marriage (37%/70%) (2012) [Redress's point]

    To reach your conclusion, one would need to ask respondents to choose between legal marriage or no recognition. Some share of those supporting legal partnership would almost certainly choose legal marriage when confronted by a choice between marriage or no recognition. If only 42% of those who chose legal partnership selected marriage when asked to choose between marriage and non-recognition, marriage would garner more than 50% overall support. Very likely, a majority of those choosing legal partnership would shift to support for marriage under those circumstances, as they already oppose non-recognition.

    Not surprisingly, a June 2013 Washington Post/ABC News poll found exactly that outcome: 57% of adults favored legal marriage for same sex couples and 40% opposed it.

    Do you support or oppose allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally? - The Washington Post
    No, your point #3 is simply an erroneous illogic.

    I already showed you the correct reasoning.

    Go back and review that .. maybe in time, you'll see your error.

    Regardless, it is clear that SS activists are oppositionally defiant in this matter, despite the great odds against them at this point.

    I don't know how this will all play out, though the deck is stacked against nationwide acceptance of the oxymoronic SS "marriage".

    It just seems that SS activists would do well to dial down the rhetoric and take a more reasonable stance of success in getting SS CUDPs recognized in the great majority of states, those states with constitutional amendments against SS "marriage", those states run by centrists and conservatives, as the liberal-run states are essentially all used up, and the geographical dynamics of the non-big-city states naturally favors a centrist/conservative approach to politics .. and that simply ain't gonna change.

    You can misinterpret poll results all you want, as well as falely imagine that most poll respondents on this subject weren't liberals, and that Blacks (normally liberal) didn't abandon you in droves as they did on this issue, but that won't serve your goal of SS state recognition across the board.

    Acceptance is really for the best.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  9. #989
    Guru

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    10-01-17 @ 10:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,498

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    You can't make that conclusion from the poll.

    What the poll shows is:

    1) Detailed support for three options: 37% for legal marriage, 33% for legal partnership, and 25% for no recognition (2012)
    2) 70% support legal status for same sex couples (2012)
    3) 53% of those supporting legal status for same sex couples favor legal marriage (37%/70%) (2012) [Redress's point]

    ...
    Your 2012 poll results disprove support for SSM. 33% for SS legal partnerships + 25% no recognition = 58% against SSM; 37% for SSM
    Last edited by cabse5; 06-27-13 at 12:33 PM.

  10. #990
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    29,023

    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Your 2012 poll results disprove support for SSM. 33% for SS legal partnerships + 25% no recognition = 58% against SSM; 37% for SSM
    You cannot claim all of those who support other than marriage SS partnerships because if given no choice of other than marriage, many of those simply would allow same sex couples to marry.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •