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Thread: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    You don't recognize children being born out of a committed parental union, as being a harm to society, and that broken social and biological commitments are both a harm to the offspring and society itself? That's curious. Ever read any sociology studies?

    I did not mention the adoption of children, but yes, it is a harm to society for adoption agencies which are sworn to be operating solely for the best interests of the adoptive children, to engage in social engineering designs by awarding those children to unions from which those children could not have possibly originated.
    And since it is proven that children ADOPTED by gays do as well as those ADOPTED by straights, you are incorrect and your position is refuted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    No, not at all -- in California the definition of "marriage" is simply being violated, thus the violation won't stand the test of time, and remains invalid.

    When you say that we can define a cat to be included in the subset of dogs, in effect, it is you who is being silly.

    With respect to higher intelligece, a cat is simply not a dog, and an SS couple civil union domestic partnership is simply not a marriage.

    No matter what dumbed-down ideological mindsets do in the political dualistic battle, that simply does not mean that redefinition occurred, obviously.

    In this case it only means that violations of intelligence and definitive propriety occurred.
    What it demonstrates is that the definition of the word marriage did not meet the criteria to be considered a definition. It has now be corrected.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    Gay marriage is not equal. It is not the same as marriage, and demonstrably not given the fact that the entirety of humanity is produced by heterosexual reproduction, and gay unions are utterly incapable of producing said offspring, which never go on to populate society, which has no vested interest in the recognition of gay unions.
    Once you include couples who are infertile in your description and condemnation, you have a point. Until then, you don't. And... since we know that procreation is not a requirement for marriage, your point is refuted, anyway.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    Facts proving they are not the same ...


    Without any claim of my being Carnac the Magnificent, I can say with absolute certainty that you yourself are the product of a heterosexual relationship, and not at all the product of a gay union.
    Which is irrelevant as to whether his parents were married. Your point is refuted.

    Either that makes me absolutely clairvoyant, or I am relying on real, hard facts that have been around for a long, long time, and aren't about to change.
    Actually, it makes what you said meaningless to the argument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    Biological fact isn't tradition.

    It's biological fact.

    Stating that women binding their feet in China is a good thing, because they always have done so, is an example of fallacy by appeal to tradition.

    This does not involve any sort of appeal to tradition.
    Actually it is an appeal to tradition logical fallacy. Here's the fallacy:

    Argumentum ad antiquitatem (the argument to antiquity or tradition). This is the familiar argument that some policy, behavior, or practice is right or acceptable because "it's always been done that way."
    Therefore, claiming that traditional marriage is right because it's always been that way is an appeal to tradition logical fallacy.

    And so you are aware, the biology of procreation is different than the act of marriage. We are discussing the latter, not the former.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    That's nonsense. We legislate based on tradition regularly and it ranges from Christmas being a national holiday to summer vacation for kiddies.
    Legislating on tradition is not the issue. Claiming that something is right because it's always been that way is the fallacy.

    But on a higher level, marriage really is about more than tradition. It's about establishing the fundamental building block of society and that's the family unit and the family unit starts is based on a mother and a father. Homosexuals have had to rely on claiming exceptional circumstances are the norm in order to rationalize that two men or two women living together and engaging in sexual relationshiops equates to "marriage".
    What exceptional circumstances?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) no trouble at all you factually lies but please proceed and i will further point out the facts

    2.)did you think anybody would buy this? you know the thread is still here right? you keep talking about people coming from heterosexual relationships. see post776 this is meaningless and its you suggesting that it matters to marriage, it does not
    You still have a problem with "lies", using it in a manner few adults actually would, and undoubtedly stemming from your problematic recognition of fact. Your failure to recognize Fact, does not constitute my own lie.

    2) The statements I've made in other posts, or in other threads, are entirely irrelevant to what I said in that specific post in response to you, which is gave you a direct link to post #770, the relevant post, where I did my Carnac routine, stated noting whatsoever about people coming from heterosexual relationships.. The fact is your claim is wrong and irrelevant to my post.


    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    3.) 100% false
    No, its not 100% false. It is, in fact, 100% correct. Each and every person is the result of heterosexual relationships, even those that are using in vitro fertilization, are relying on heterosexual reproduction, a sperm and an egg, and that is heterosexually based, with the egg/ovum being called in ancient Greek, gamete γαμετή for "wife" , the sperm being recognized by the term "gametes", ancient Greek gametes γαμέτης for "husband". There's no getting around the fact, and you're wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    4.) see 3
    See above.


    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    5.) yep as proven in 1 your opinion is meanignless its not need, facts prove you wrong again
    also as already mentioned somewhere early in this thread the bolded is 100% false
    You haven't proven a thing, except your penchant to offer your own unfounded ramblings as truth, and your failed understanding to accuse lying.


    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    6.) you can double down on this if you like but it already lost and was proven false
    As shown in the link #770 above, I was referencing heterosexual relationships, not marriage, which shows your statement wrong, and your claim that I lost wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    I AGAIN ask you "do you have anything thats on topic to legal marriage and matters to the topic? anything?
    Yes, and I want to thank you for proving, through your ignorance, the the definition and recognition of marriage comes form the fact that people can procreate outside of marriage, or any relationship at all, and this is why societies the world over, throughout mankind's history, have invariably recognized marriage to be a man and woman.

    You can keep trying to spin, but your misrepresentations of fact, and this conversation, won't change either.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    No, its not 100% false. It is, in fact, 100% correct. Each and every person is the result of heterosexual relationships, even those that are using in vitro fertilization, are relying on heterosexual reproduction, a sperm and an egg, and that is heterosexually based, with the egg/ovum being called in ancient Greek, gamete γαμετή for "wife" , the sperm being recognized by the term "gametes", ancient Greek gametes γαμέτης for "husband". There's no getting around the fact, and you're wrong.

    As shown in the link #770 above, I was referencing heterosexual relationships, not marriage, which shows your statement wrong, and your claim that I lost wrong.
    This is false. Every single person is not the result of a heterosexual "relationship". Many people are the result of an opposite sex booty call. Some are the result of some sperm being donated to a woman for her to get pregnant by. Some are the result of a rape. Some are the result of an egg being donated for use in conjunction with sperm and a surrogate mother in order to make a baby. "Relationship" generally implies much more than any of these things.

    And none of this has anything to do with marriage. Children are not required for marriage. And blood relation is not required to raise a child well.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    We now know... as you have been told repeatedly, that this is inaccurate. DOMA was found unconstitutional based on the exact reasons that people have refuted your position with: it violates state's rights issues on regulating marriage. It is good to see that the correct decision was rendered.
    You should actually go read and understand the majority opinion before you pontificate on it.

    DOMA was said in that majority opinion to be unconstituti0onal specifically because of a deprivation of equal liberty under the Due Process clause of 5th Amendment.

    The only reference to states rights was the right of states to define the law under state sovereignty, which in fact was nowhere denied by DOMA, with the 10th Amendment "states rights" nowhere being cited as the principle for the holding.

    Quotes from Kennedy's decision:
    "Although Congress has great authority to design laws to fit its own conception of sound national policy, it cannot deny the liberty protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment."

    "DOMA's principal effect is to identify a subset of state-sanctioned marriages and make them unequal. The principal purpose is to impose inequality, not for other reasons like governmental efficiency. Responsibilities, as well as rights, enhance the dignity and integrity of the person. And DOMA contrives to deprive some couples married under the laws of their State, but not other couples, of both rights and responsibilities."

    The references above, and throughout the ruling, presumes same sex couples to be the equivalent of marriage, and ignores that the federal government's compelled recognition of same sex marriage forces other states to recognize that fabricated definition of marriage. That first quote actually shows that presumption of equality in its statement, while denying the intent and authority of Congress, presuming instead a unilateral right to redefine a word by the states. Strangely the same crew has disregarded the lack of authority of Congress to dictate health care, and that same States Rights, and the rights of the citizens therein, to not have their health care dictated.


    In short, the majority opinion does nothing but presume what it wants to conclude, and uses states rights only to justify that redefinition of marriage by the state, which DOMA never denied. But the decision then compels that recognition of the state's definition, not by any states right to compel other states and the federal government to recognize that redefinition, which is your mistaken claim, but by the presumption of that false equivalence made by that state being valid outside the state, and under the Constitution, and then applies the 5th Amendment due process to reach its preordained conclusion, in disregard of the Constitution's intent and the fact of terminology.

    The court sidesteps and ignores the entire interest of the Congress in making Doma, inclusive of a majority of Democrats in both houses, to prevent the abuse of the Full Faith and Credit clause, and prohibit any corrupt compulsion put on the other states by the whim of a few. This was nothing but an example of the corruption of the judiciary, and willingness to engage dictation and legislation from the bench, which is what Scalia and others recognized in their scathing dissent.

    We are no longer a Republic ruled by law, but an aristocracy ruled by men.

    And I'm done responding to you, as your behavior has shown a repeated lack of character, and abuse of your position in order to get an upper hand by inappropriate means. Your repetition of the same arguments and distortions of fact, converting the fact of reproduction originating from heterosexual relationship, into a compulsion to have children, which nowhere is relevant, and reversing cause and effect, have already been dealt with and were gutted elsewhere, hence your need to resort to abuse of position.
    Last edited by Trip; 06-26-13 at 07:23 PM.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This is false. Every single person is not the result of a heterosexual "relationship". Many people are the result of an opposite sex booty call. Some are the result of some sperm being donated to a woman for her to get pregnant by. Some are the result of a rape. Some are the result of an egg being donated for use in conjunction with sperm and a surrogate mother in order to make a baby. "Relationship" generally implies much more than any of these things.

    And none of this has anything to do with marriage. Children are not required for marriage. And blood relation is not required to raise a child well.
    Uh, that "opposite sex booty call" is still heterosexual reproduction, and the term "relationship" does not necessitate nor imply any sort of ongoing relationship between people, but references the ongoing and immutable relation of the sperm and ovum necessary for reproduction, to those two heterosexual sexes.

    Likewise, artificial insemination and in vitro fertilization also rely on that same heterosexual reproduction process, and rape as well.

    Again, and quite obviously, the reference to "relationship" does not refer to any ongoing relationship between partners, much less a stable one, but the relationship of the reproduction process to that heterosexuality... and it really is an inane claim that it might be.

    "If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary."

    ~ James Madison

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