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Thread: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You and I can both marry someone of the opposit sex. You and are both barred from marrying the same sex. That's equal treatment.


    SCOTUS agreed with that point in the Loving decision. Interacial marriage bans failed for other reasons.


    Whatever their legal sex is, they can marry the opposit. Pretty clear.
    No, that is not equal treatment, any more than it was equal treatment when the claim was "black people can marry within their own race, and white people can marry within their own race, and each are treated the same when trying to marry a person of the other race so that is equal treatment".
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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanstantine View Post
    Is it really that big a deal if we let gays marry?

    Really? Don't we have bigger things to worry about, like hunger, homelessness, education, healthcare, Iran, immigration, obesity, pollution?
    I'm actually of a mixed mind about it.
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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by wbcoleman View Post
    I'm actually of a mixed mind about it.
    Where is the puree button...

    OK, I will go and behave now.
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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Absolutely false. The definition of marriage varies by state now, and has varied over time just in the history of this country.
    Varying ages of consent hardly represent differing definitions of marriage!
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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by wbcoleman View Post
    Varying ages of consent hardly represent differing definitions of marriage!
    Certainly does, as do the number of people you can marry, the relationship of the people you can marry, the race of the people you can marry. Guess what, those where largely different from now when this country was founded...
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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, that is not equal treatment, any more than it was equal treatment when the claim was "black people can marry within their own race, and white people can marry within their own race, and each are treated the same when trying to marry a person of the other race so that is equal treatment".
    That's equal treatment. SCOTUS agreed with that point in Loving. Interracial-marriage bans failed for other reasons.

    The same rule applying to everyone is equal treatment. Equality does not mean "I get my way". Equality is perfectly neutral and simply means that the same rule applies to everyone. If everyone is treated like ****, that's equality too.


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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's equal treatment. SCOTUS agreed with that point in Loving. Interracial-marriage bans failed for other reasons.
    Actually, SCOTUS specifically rejected that reasoning in Loving:

    "[W]e reject the notion that the mere 'equal application' of a statute containing racial classifications is enough to remove the classifications from the Fourteenth Amendment's proscription of all invidious racial discriminations."

    So yes, that reasoning is one of several reasons that SCOTUS found Virginia's anti-miscegenation law unconstitutional.

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Actually, SCOTUS specifically rejected that reasoning in Loving:

    "[W]e reject the notion that the mere 'equal application' of a statute containing racial classifications is enough to remove the classifications from the Fourteenth Amendment's proscription of all invidious racial discriminations."

    So yes, that reasoning is one of several reasons that SCOTUS found Virginia's anti-miscegenation law unconstitutional.
    They didn't reject that point. They said it alone wasn't enough to uphold the ban. Here is the quote for context:
    FindLaw | Cases and Codes Section 1, paragraphs 3-4......The argument is that, if the Equal Protection Clause does not outlaw miscegenation statutes because of their reliance on racial classifications, the question of constitutionality would thus become whether there was any rational basis for a State to treat interracial marriages differently from other marriages. On this question, the State argues, the scientific evidence is substantially in doubt and, consequently, this Court should defer to the wisdom of the state legislature in adopting its policy of discouraging interracial marriages.


    Because we reject the notion that the mere "equal application" of a statute containing racial classifications is enough to remove the classifications from the Fourteenth Amendment's proscription of all invidious racial discriminations, we do not accept the State's contention that these statutes should be upheld if there is any possible basis for concluding that they serve a rational purpose.
    .......
    So yes, SCOTUS agreed with the point, but the point wasn't enough to win the argument, and so the ban failed.

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's equal treatment. SCOTUS agreed with that point in Loving. Interracial-marriage bans failed for other reasons.

    The same rule applying to everyone is equal treatment. Equality does not mean "I get my way". Equality is perfectly neutral and simply means that the same rule applies to everyone. If everyone is treated like ****, that's equality too.
    Why not just say you don't want gays to marry because you think it is wrong instead of coming up with these silly fallacies to try and justify keeping them from getting married? Just admit you think discriminating against them is the right thing to do.

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    They didn't reject that point. They said it alone wasn't enough to uphold the ban. Here is the quote for context:

    So yes, SCOTUS agreed with the point, but the point wasn't enough to win the argument, and so the ban failed.
    What? The quote you cited makes the same point I just made:

    "Because we reject the notion that the mere "equal application" of a statute containing racial classifications is enough to remove the classifications from the Fourteenth Amendment's proscription of all invidious racial discriminations, we do not accept the State's contention that these statutes should be upheld if there is any possible basis for concluding that they serve a rational purpose."

    They're saying that the argument you're trying to make doesn't remove the law from their purview. They're explicitly rejecting the argument you're making.

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