Page 32 of 159 FirstFirst ... 2230313233344282132 ... LastLast
Results 311 to 320 of 1585

Thread: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

  1. #311
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    this isn't a discussion about polygamy.
    That's right. This is a discussion about marriage equality. Equality only for one group is a contradicting idea. Equality means EVERYONE, not just your little pet group.

    If you only want to support gays right now, that's fine, nothing wrong with that at all, and I join you in supporting gays....but by definition that means your cause is not about equality.

    I support SSM, but I do not support poligamy, and that means I do not support marriage equality.
    Last edited by Jerry; 06-16-13 at 03:54 PM.

  2. #312
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,064

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's right. This is a discussion about marriage equality. Equality only for one group is a contradicting idea. Equality means EVERYONE, not just your little pet group.

    If you only want to support gays right now, that's fine, nothing wrong with that at all, and I join you in supporting gays....but by definition that means your cause is not about equality.

    I support SSM, but I do not support poligamy, and that means I do not support marriage equality.
    incorrect. polygamy is a choice; homosexuality is not.

    if you support SSM being legally recognized in all 50 states as OSM is currently, then we agree.

  3. #313
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    incorrect. polygamy is a choice; homosexuality is not.
    Isn't this all about having a legal framework to marry someone of your *choice* and not having that *choice* arbitreraly blocked by the State without a damn good reason?

    Since heterosexuality is not a choice, are you standing up for a person's right to marry as many members of the opposit sex as they want? You're saying that a ban on poligamy is discrimination against heteros?

  4. #314
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,064

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Isn't this all about having a legal framework to marry someone of your *choice* and not having that *choice* arbitreraly blocked by the State without a damn good reason?

    Since heterosexuality is not a choice, are you standing up for a person's right to marry as many members of the opposit sex as they want? You're saying that a ban on poligamy is discrimination against heteros?
    no.

    this is about gay people having the same right to marry as heterosexuals currently have. while i really don't care if someone marries multiple people, it isn't the same equal protection issue, nor is it analogous for reasons which i've already explained.

  5. #315
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Isn't this all about having a legal framework to marry someone of your *choice* and not having that *choice* arbitreraly blocked by the State without a damn good reason?
    No, it is about the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment requiring laws to apply equally to ALL citizens regardless of sex, race, country of origin (assuming they have become citizens), or religion. The fact that same sex marriage is not allowed has created men and women being treated unequally under the eyes of the law and this is generally not allowed (other than in some military issues). This is quite clearly gender discrimination.

    Banning polygamy does not make women and men treated unequally. Or blacks and whites. Or even mormons and atheists, because no one can practice polygamy. Now, you could make the case for polygamy under other constitutional or legal arguments, but the same argument (14th amendment) for same sex marriage does not apply. That said, I am ok with polygamy, under the assumption all involved are consenting adults AND the benefits for it are not used in a manner that amounts to fraud ie someone marrying 100 immigrants to get all of them green cards.

  6. #316
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by PotusHillary View Post
    No, it is about the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment requiring laws to apply equally to ALL citizens regardless of sex, race, country of origin (assuming they have become citizens), or religion. The fact that same sex marriage is not allowed has created men and women being treated unequally under the eyes of the law and this is generally not allowed (other than in some military issues). This is quite clearly gender discrimination.
    Sex, not gender. Those words mean diferent things.

    Both sexes can marry the opposit sex. Neither sex can marry the same sex. That's equality of the sexes. Esch sex has the exact same rights and restrictions as the other.

    This will remain true after SSM is legalised, therefore this is not an equality issue.

  7. #317
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Sex, not gender. Those words mean diferent things.

    Both sexes can marry the opposit sex. Neither sex can marry the same sex. That's equality of the sexes. Esch sex has the exact same rights and restrictions as the other.

    This will remain true after SSM is legalised, therefore this is not an equality issue.
    No, it still treats me (as a woman) under the eyes of the law differently than you (as a man).

    Moreover, your argument would apply to interracial marriage. Whites can marry whites, blacks can marry blacks therefore the races are equal.

    Your argument also gets muddy when you consider transgender and intersex individuals. Who can they marry?

  8. #318
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:43 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,272
    Blog Entries
    2

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by PotusHillary View Post
    No, it still treats me (as a woman) under the eyes of the law differently than you (as a man).

    Moreover, your argument would apply to interracial marriage. Whites can marry whites, blacks can marry blacks therefore the races are equal.

    Your argument also gets muddy when you consider transgender and intersex individuals. Who can they marry?
    Hi, welcome to the board here! Just as a way of introduction, and to ensure you do not get the wrong idea: I am one of the most vocal and definite supporters of SSM. I wear as a badge of pride the name I have been called, "homoapologist". When it comes to SSM, no one is more in favor of it than I am, and few equal me in that regards.

    Legally(and as far as court decisions go, that is what matters), the whole equal rights argument fails. The state is under no obligation to provide equal rights to every one, at many times it would be stupid to do so. Children have fewer rights than adults for example, and for good reason. The legal argument centers on one major question(well, for states to ban SSM that is, DOMA is a different animal, and the arguments are completely different): does that state have a rational, legitimate interest in denying same sex couples from marrying. Since marraige is a right(see Loving v Virginia et al), the state needs to show at least that much in order to ban SSM. Arguing that SSM bans are discriminatory in court is a failed argument, since most laws are in some way discriminatory.

    Equal rights also fails as an argument in favor of SSM outside of courts. People will then bring up all the usual suspects, polygamy, incest, bestiality and any other stupid **** they can think of and ask why they do not get equal rights. The number one, far and away best argument in favor of SSM is that it benefits the children of those entering into the marriage, both those already born, and those that might come later. A stable, loving marriage is without question the best situation for raising children. There are a number of other, smaller arguments in favor of SSM that all derive from that same aspect of marriage, stability. This is an argument that is much harder to counter, and all the counters are emotional and not logical and generally arise out of ignorance on the part of the one trying to counter.

    Again, welcome to the board here, I hope your stay is long and enjoyable.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #319
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,626

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by wbcoleman View Post
    Do men have a constitutional right to marry their daughters? Assuming, of course, that everyone is above age of consent.
    Incest and SSM are false and unequal comparisons. Therefore your analogy is irrelevant.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #320
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by PotusHillary View Post
    No, it still treats me (as a woman) under the eyes of the law differently than you (as a man).
    You and I can both marry someone of the opposit sex. You and are both barred from marrying the same sex. That's equal treatment.

    Moreover, your argument would apply to interracial marriage. Whites can marry whites, blacks can marry blacks therefore the races are equal.
    SCOTUS agreed with that point in the Loving decision. Interacial marriage bans failed for other reasons.

    Your argument also gets muddy when you consider transgender and intersex individuals. Who can they marry?
    Whatever their legal sex is, they can marry the opposit. Pretty clear.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •