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Thread: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Laws don't care how you feel.... Laws don't have emotions - especially non-existing laws and especially those laws that do not exist..
    I wasn't referring to laws. I was referring to people. Go back and read more carefully.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    The government doesn't discriminate against gays...

    Gays just want to be a "protected class" and have MORE rights than anyone else..

    I find anyone who believes the government should protect them from scrutiny to be obnoxious..
    I suspect that you are one of those Republicans who is ashamed to admit that you are so you started calling yourself "Libertarian"....and I bet its a safe bet that your voting record indicates as much.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    All you have is the same tired out bull****.

    I support legalising SSM federaly and forcing every state to comply. I hope SCOTUS rules in this way.

    However, it has nothing to do with sex preferences or any of that bull**** for 2 reasons: 1. Its not the state's job to endorse your benign sexual desires with liceces. Infact its a violation of your 4th amendment right. 2. The state's sole justification in brieching your 4th amendment when it regulates marriage, is the state's "compelling interest" in the raising of children (which same-sex couples can do as well as opposit-sex couples) and in promoting long-term stable relationships.

    That's it. The more stable and helthy a given kind of relationship, the more the state should support it. The less stable, the less the state should support it, regardles of who or what composes the relationship.

    Noone can marry just whomever they want to now, and noone will be able to after SSM is legalised.

    Has nothing to do with equality or sex preferences or any of that libtard crap.
    Believe it or not, same sex couples raise children as well. Every reason we support heterosexual marriage is just as valid for homosexual marriage.

    It has everything to do with equality and nothing to do with much of anything else.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Man there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. I will break this down in some decent detail, but it is late, I am not documenting jack **** right now, nor am I looking things up so this is going from memory. However, this is a topic that has interested me and I have studied the cases in some detail. Take what I say for what it is worth.

    First, there are two very different cases before SCOTUS in terms of SSM. The first is Perry v Hollingsworth. This is where marriage as a right will be looked at, maybe. This is also where many people are getting confused. The facts: marriage in this country is a right. Most frequently cited to prove that is Loving v Virginia, but there is a whole plethora of cases that do the same thing. You may not like it, but until SCOTUS rules that it is not a right(and think hard about that, do you really want that to be the case), or the constitution is amended, marriage is a right.

    To deny some one from a right requires the state to be able to do certain things, depending on the right and who is being denied that right. One of the big questions in this case is the level of scrutiny that should be used. Even at the lowest level of scrutiny, to deny SSM couples from marrying, the state would have to show that the law is rationally related to a legitimate government interest. In other words, the state would have to show that prop 8 serves a legitimate government interest. The question would be what is the government's interest in limiting marriage to only being between a man and woman. That is the lowest possible hurdle, and it could be much higher depending on how the court rules.

    However, it is quite likely the court will sidestep the issue altogether. Easiest and most likely would be a ruling that denies the petitioners(prop 8 backers) appellate standing. basically this means that the people who appealed can't. Even that get's complicated, but the most likely outcome would be going all the way back to Judge Walker's decision, which would likely still be put on hold. Temporary stalemate. Next most likely, ruling that since SSM couples did at one point have the right to marry, the state cannot take it away. Then there is the possibility the court could decide that the petition was granted in error, meaning that in reality the SCOTUS should not have heard the case at all, and thus confirming the appeals court ruling.

    There are a number of other possible outcomes. Best guess, 50 - 50 that SSM will be legal in California as a result of SCOTUS ruling. If not, then most likely it will be held in legal limbo as lower courts have to go through the process again. It is very unlikely that the court will simply uphold prop 8, but certainly not impossible.

    Note that nowhere in there did I mention equal rights. There is a reason for that. While equal protection is a part of the case, simply saying it is an equal rights issue is vastly too simplified. Also note that those who are claiming that marriage is a right are, well, wrong. It is a right. Further note that the definition of marriage varies by state currently, and has varied widely in the history of our country, so toss out any of those traditional definition arguments, they fail.

    The other case is Windsor v United States, and no that does not mean we are fighting Canada. This is a much more clear cut case which has a much more likely outcome. States have historically been the ones to define who can get married in their state, and other states and the federal government recognize those marriages. DOMA pretty clearly takes away the right of the state to do that. This is an argument which appeals both to conservative and liberal judges. This is highly likely to be the outcome of the case(probably 80 % likely). The big question is whether the court will rule on portability(that is, whether if a SSM couple marries in a state that allows such marriages moves to a state without, does the federal government still have to recognize the marriage?) and a few other technical aspects. Most likely not, which would leave the decision basically in Obama and the justice department's hands, at least for now. Once again, it is however possible that the court will decide not to rule, and my basic understanding is if that happens, DOMA would last awhile longer until another case makes it through the system or it would put it back to the lower courts ruling and DOMA goes away.

    So to recap: most likely DOMA is gone, but this is far from a sure thing. Prop 8 has so many possible outcomes, who the **** knows how that will turn out.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I find anyone who believes the government should protect them from scrutiny to be obnoxious..
    That is pretty much everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Has nothing to do with equality or sex preferences or any of that libtard crap.
    Could not have put it better myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Believe it or not, same sex couples raise children as well.
    Yeah I just said that.

    So now we know that you don't even read peoples posts.

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yeah I just said that.

    So now we know that you don't even read peoples posts.
    No, you just didn't say it clear enough.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, you just didn't say it clear enough.
    You just can't read.

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    re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You just can't read.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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