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Thread: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Ahh, but this paves the way. The research will begin. You pay researchers to get you the answers you want and you'll get the answers you want. It works that way on everything from global warming to all the great things homosexual marriage will do for society. It will also work for polygamous marriages. Remember.... polygamous marriages have been more common throughout history than homosexual marriages and by a wide margin. If you think the proponents of polygamy won't be in line for their share of the "hope and change", you're mistaken. And if you think they leverage the legal arguments that opened up marriage to other permutations than man/woman... again, you are mistaken. Right now homosexual marriage is en vogue but it won't be forever.

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...iw=853&bih=626
    Which has not one damn thing to do with same sex marriage. We all know heterosexual marriage leads to marriage among adults and children, people and pets, and lamps and any other stupid thing you care to throw out there. The slippery slope starts with heterosexual marriage.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Ahh, but this paves the way. The research will begin. You pay researchers to get you the answers you want and you'll get the answers you want. It works that way on everything from global warming to all the great things homosexual marriage will do for society. It will also work for polygamous marriages. Remember.... polygamous marriages have been more common throughout history than homosexual marriages and by a wide margin. If you think the proponents of polygamy won't be in line for their share of the "hope and change", you're mistaken. And if you think they leverage the legal arguments that opened up marriage to other permutations than man/woman... again, you are mistaken. Right now homosexual marriage is en vogue but it won't be forever.

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...iw=853&bih=626
    And until there is valid research that proves benefits, you have nothing but a slippery slope, so your argument is illogical. And... since polygamy has been more common throughout history, and yet with THAT there is no valid research that shows the kinds of benefits that compels the state to sanction marriage, the lack of logic of this argument is even more clear.
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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And until there is valid research that proves benefits, you have nothing but a slippery slope, so your argument is illogical. And... since polygamy has been more common throughout history, and yet with THAT there is no valid research that shows the kinds of benefits that compels the state to sanction marriage, the lack of logic of this argument is even more clear.
    Clear logic would tell you that the arguments in favor of the oxymoron called homosexual marriage attempt to establish marriage as an amorphous social contract and that welcomes all players. Polygamy advocates are trembly pleased with the progress homosexuals have made in paving the way for them. Marriage; its not just for a man and a woman any more. Where it ends is anyone's guess but homosexuals aren't the only interested group.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Clear logic would tell you that the arguments in favor of the oxymoron called homosexual marriage attempt to establish marriage as an amorphous social contract and that welcomes all players. Polygamy advocates are trembly pleased with the progress homosexuals have made in paving the way for them. Marriage; its not just for a man and a woman any more. Where it ends is anyone's guess but homosexuals aren't the only interested group.
    Clear logic and fact-based information that focuses on the benefit-argument would easily tell you that your assertion meets none of the criteria for a logical argument.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I think you're lying. Possibly to me, possibly to yourself. Can't be sure.



    Sure there is. But there's no conscious decision making going on with respect to who you're attracted to. Again: you're confusing distinct issues.
    Prove it.
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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Clear logic would tell you that the arguments in favor of the oxymoron called homosexual marriage attempt to establish marriage as an amorphous social contract and that welcomes all players. Polygamy advocates are trembly pleased with the progress homosexuals have made in paving the way for them. Marriage; its not just for a man and a woman any more. Where it ends is anyone's guess but homosexuals aren't the only interested group.
    I sorry to have to point this out to you but in fact "clear logic" would indicate that you are using a fallacious slippery-slope argument in support of your position. This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim.

    BTW, please be careful and do not provide support for your argument by stating "everyone knows," or "it's an obvious result," as premises. That only becomes an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people").

    It is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so" (an invalid premise), "it is so" (an unsound conclusion).

    If you call on logic then make certain your premises are valid so that your conclusion is sound. Just a point of clarification.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 06-30-13 at 06:30 AM.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I sorry to have to point this out to you but in fact "clear logic" would indicate that you are using a fallacious slippery-slope argument in support of your position. This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim.
    There is absolutely reason to believe challenges to polygamy laws will follow any successful transition of marriage into an amorphous social contract with many permutations. Polygamy advocates are TELLING us that they're waiting in the wings for this. That makes it reasonable to believe it's going to happen. If you have some logical reason to believe they're lying about that, go ahead and explain it.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    There is absolutely reason to believe challenges to polygamy laws will follow any successful transition of marriage into an amorphous social contract with many permutations. Polygamy advocates are TELLING us that they're waiting in the wings for this. That makes it reasonable to believe it's going to happen. If you have some logical reason to believe they're lying about that, go ahead and explain it.
    There you go doing exactly what I expected. I was discussing Logic here, not your position on the issue.

    I did not say you could not use that argument...I merely stated your argument does NOT follow "clear logic." Both your original post and this current one are not based on logical premises. Just because something appears reasonable to you does not necessarily make it "logical." Okay?

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    It's known as precedent and the slippery slope in this case is not a fallacy. While it is possible it may never be borne out, I can't think of any legal arguments to expand marriage beyond a man and a woman that can't be leveraged to try to expand it to other permutations, as well. You may argue that polygamy and incestuous relationships are different, but we're setting a precedent that different isn't inherently wrong, so now the argument that the state must prove some sort of harm from allowing polygamy or incestuous marriage just like you demanded the state show for homosexual marriage. You may claim there is some harm, roguenuke did, but the arguments will likely not stand before critical scrutiny. Why can't a brother marry his sister? What harm to you? What harm to the state? Children? Marriage isn't about procreation per YOUR argument (which I think is wrong)... but you want that argument to stand so you can't rely on that to stop incest.

    This really is a slippery slope. Of all the slippery slope arguments I've heard from gun control to abortion, this is the only one that is unquestionably a steep slope and unquestionably covered with oil.
    Legally this is wrong. All the state has to prove in any other case is that there is a legitimate state interest being furthered in those restrictions. The arguments for what state interest is being furthered in those restrictions is not changed because the legal argument for why marriage should be restricted on the basis of sex/gender is not, despite your beliefs, "because it has always been this way". At least not a winning legal argument.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    There is absolutely reason to believe challenges to polygamy laws will follow any successful transition of marriage into an amorphous social contract with many permutations. Polygamy advocates are TELLING us that they're waiting in the wings for this. That makes it reasonable to believe it's going to happen. If you have some logical reason to believe they're lying about that, go ahead and explain it.
    There is no reason to believe that these challenges will be successful. Just as there was a challenge to the restrictions on same sex marriage within a couple of years of the Loving decision and yet it was still ruled valid because the circumstances and arguments are different. Plus, there have been challenges to the laws limiting how many spouses a person can have throughout much of our history (especially once we gained Utah as a state). They have all been shot down, and it shows that it does not require same sex marriage being legal to push for polygamy. It still has to be argued on its merits and on what state interest the state can show is being furthered in keeping that restriction in place. The arguments for these are much different than those involving restrictions on marriage based on sex/gender.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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