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Thread: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    Not me, unless ALL unions were called civil unions. Same name, same rights and responsibilities.
    Yeah... you're one of the people I was talking about when I stated that homosexuals have rejected the concept of civil unions even if they carried all the exact same rights... which proved to me that it's relaly not about the rights as much as making a political statement. Which is why I'll be arguing against homosexual marriages ad infinitum now or until I have some reason to believe that it's really about rights and not about agendas and attention-seeking. And after the display I've seen lately, that will take some time if it ever happens at all.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Gay marriage was never an issue until the AIDS epidemic and the subsequent issues with "partner benefits". If you are gay then you know the real problem with what I'm saying is that it's one of the dirty little secrets of the LGBT community that has been trying to figure out ways to work through the AIDS crisis and the ensuing difficulties of insurance, medical costs, hospitalization issues, etc. You and I both know there will be a lot of homosexual marriages purely for the sake of insurance, now. 1 in 5. That's a scary number. As much as we know about prevention and it's still 1 in 5 for homosexual males? Insurance is absolutely a part of this discussion and one of the drivers for the "gay marriage" that no one wanted until the aids epidemic came along.
    You are very wrong. It in fact came up long before HIV was even known about. Baker v Nelson happened in Minnesota in 1971. The SCOTUS refused to hear the case. The couple sued for same sex marriage then.

    It was absolutely an issue prior to AIDS, the only reason it was not pushed prior to now is because of several factors.

    First, it was in fact considered a mental illness due to faulty research up til around 1973. And most states also had bans on sodomy up til this time as well. Up til this last few decades, most jobs would fire someone for being gay.

    Slowly, the states began to overturn their sodomy bans over the next couple of decades until the SCOTUS finally struck down the last bans ten years ago. And in the last few decades, with the growth of technology and the computer age, where many of the most successful business leaders are young and highly intelligent, we now see business leaders saying "why the heck should I fire someone for simply being in a relationship with someone of the same sex?". This is what has lead to the major push in same sex marriage. Those who have been together for decades, such as Windsor and her wife and Richard Baker and James McConnell (who are still together since 1971) absolutely would have loved marriage before now, but they were much more concerned with just living their lives and not getting fired (or in some places worse) for who they loved.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yeah... you're one of the people I was talking about when I stated that homosexuals have rejected the concept of civil unions even if they carried all the exact same rights... which proved to me that it's relaly not about the rights as much as making a political statement. Which is why I'll be arguing against homosexual marriages ad infinitum now or until I have some reason to believe that it's really about rights and not about agendas and attention-seeking. And after the display I've seen lately, that will take some time if it ever happens at all.
    I wouldn't settle for something other than marriage when other couples were given marriage either, and I'm heterosexual. Why should anyone have to settle for another name for their union just because some people do not approve of sharing the current name? Not to mention the cost of implementing such a thing.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I am definitely biased. I was on the fence and quite ambivalent about it for some time. Every time I hear homosexual advocates accuse everyone who disagrees with them of being a hater and a bigot, it just hardens the issue for me. I'm not on the fence any more. I'm glad this state not only doesn't allow homosexual marriage but forbids civil unions or anything resembling them and won't recognize them in this or any other state. I'm guessing the politicians that signed that amendment to the state constitution into law got called haters and bigots a few times too many, too. I'd sign the damned thing with blood because the left has made it a cultural war. So screw 'em. You'll probably win the war eventually, but it'll take years and you'll have to spend millions and even billions in court cases to finally get a case before judges demented enough to let you have your way. But it won't be soon. You were a lot more sympathetic when you were pretending to just be poor souls deprived of rights instead of making it clear that you are just a bunch of punk-ass activists badmouthing and condemning everyone with a different opinion than your own.
    Move to Kansas. Maybe Westboro Baptist Church will swing you the other way.

    I don't believe the butthurt act. I don't think everyone who opposes same sex marriage is a "hater" but I do think you are lacking in integrity if your principles are entirely based on being retaliatory to the whims of extremists. Yeah, there are dips on both sides. But you were never really on the "fence" if you are so clearly biased as to ignore the extremists on the other side.

    And dude, you are doing exactly what you are accusing those activists of doing. You are badmouthing and condemning everyone with a different opinion than your own and seeking sympathy for being called a "hater" by the extremists. That is hypocrisy in my book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yeah... you're one of the people I was talking about when I stated that homosexuals have rejected the concept of civil unions even if they carried all the exact same rights... which proved to me that it's relaly not about the rights as much as making a political statement. Which is why I'll be arguing against homosexual marriages ad infinitum now or until I have some reason to believe that it's really about rights and not about agendas and attention-seeking. And after the display I've seen lately, that will take some time if it ever happens at all.
    I want the protections that marriage will offer me and my family. That is it. I didn't really care what it was called as long as it was the same for everyone as far as the government was concerned. I suspect you have always been opposed to granting any legal recognition to same sex couples and you are now using the far leftists elements of the gay rights movement as justification to oppose it now. If that is the case it is really sad because that means you can't just say you oppose it on grounds of principles, you need to try to deceive others and yourself rather than standing behind values or religious convictions. Do you really think anyone will respect you for declaring animosity? Do you think that you will inspire fear in people or divide the movement? All it does is make you look like you lack integrity. That is it.

    I respect Jerry, one of the members on this forum. Not because of how he has come around on same sex marriage, but because even though he has, he argues vehemently with the leftists on why same sex marriage should be a part of society. He does not like the leftists or their arguments any more than you do, but he doesn't allow them to dictate his position on this issue. That is integrity.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 06-28-13 at 08:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by truth seeker? View Post
    Why would you want to be married to sorry but must be said a CORRUPT ORIGINATION THE CHURCH WHICH DOES NOT EVEN REPRESENT THE VIEW'S OF JESUS COME ON
    You don't have to get legally married in any church.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I wouldn't settle for something other than marriage when other couples were given marriage either, and I'm heterosexual. Why should anyone have to settle for another name for their union just because some people do not approve of sharing the current name? Not to mention the cost of implementing such a thing.
    I agree. So long as the word marriage has legal force than we have to deal with equal protection. I wouldn't settle for civil unions for one group either. Though I still think the way to go is to have civil unions for everybody as the only legal union, and then let religious groups do what they want with the word "marriage" -- as long as it has no force of law.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    I agree. So long as the word marriage has legal force than we have to deal with equal protection. I wouldn't settle for civil unions for one group either. Though I still think the way to go is to have civil unions for everybody as the only legal union, and then let religious groups do what they want with the word "marriage" -- as long as it has no force of law.
    I don't agree about changing the term for several reasons. It wrongly gives into religious people that they have any sort of claim to the word marriage, which they don't. Second, it would cost money. Even a little cost just to appease those who wrongly believe they own a word is too much, especially considering our current economic situation. And last, it just feels wrong. Why should we change something that is already in place and easily adapts to same sex couples entering into it without a change in the name? It feels so wrong. As if we are knuckling under or giving into five year olds. "Okay, we won't call it marriage. We'll call it something else, and everyone will be happy." (Except everyone won't be happy with this change because there will be many from both sides who will still blame the other for forcing the change and it will be even more bitter than now.)
    Last edited by roguenuke; 06-28-13 at 08:31 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    I agree. So long as the word marriage has legal force than we have to deal with equal protection. I wouldn't settle for civil unions for one group either. Though I still think the way to go is to have civil unions for everybody as the only legal union, and then let religious groups do what they want with the word "marriage" -- as long as it has no force of law.
    again this is already the case, this is true today
    so why change it? im not really understanding the motivation.
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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yeah... you're one of the people I was talking about when I stated that homosexuals have rejected the concept of civil unions even if they carried all the exact same rights... which proved to me that it's relaly not about the rights as much as making a political statement. Which is why I'll be arguing against homosexual marriages ad infinitum now or until I have some reason to believe that it's really about rights and not about agendas and attention-seeking. And after the display I've seen lately, that will take some time if it ever happens at all.
    Separate is not equal.

    You were always against treating people equally under the law. Gays wanting liberty has nothing to do with it. You don't like gay people that is obvious.

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