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Thread: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    So the foundation for your "special rights" objection is that they are seeking to marry someone of the same sex? Your basis is that opposite sex marriage is some sort of "natural right" and because thats what everyone else "has always done?"
    Yes. Everyone that matters to the USA. I've heard all the homosexual claims of exceptions to the rule, but they're exceptions, not the rule.

    So, both historically and in current international and State jurisdictions same-sex marriage is not a special right because "everyone has been doing it and is still doing it" today.
    Everyone has not been doing same sex marriage all along and neither is everyone still doing it. It is a break with both tradition and history despite dishonest claims to the contrary by advocates of homosexual marriage. You can claim there were exceptions to the rule, but that's all they were - deviations and exceptions. Marriage in the United States (and all the free world, for that matter) were always between one man and one woman for the entire history of the USA until the last dozen years and longer than that throughout the rest of the world.

    You're bucking history and claiming that you're not isn't honest and I'm, not sure who you think you're kidding with that but it's not me.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yes. Everyone that matters to the USA. I've heard all the homosexual claims of exceptions to the rule, but they're exceptions, not the rule.



    Everyone has not been doing same sex marriage all along and neither is everyone still doing it. It is a break with both tradition and history despite dishonest claims to the contrary by advocates of homosexual marriage. You can claim there were exceptions to the rule, but that's all they were - deviations and exceptions. Marriage in the United States (and all the free world, for that matter) were always between one man and one woman for the entire history of the USA until the last dozen years and longer than that throughout the rest of the world.

    You're bucking history and claiming that you're not isn't honest and I'm, not sure who you think you're kidding with that but it's not me.
    It's YOU who are being selective. You are saying basically, "as long as the MAJORITY of people have been doing it, that means EVERYONE has been doing it." I'm saying it has been going on since the dawn of effing time all over the world, in just about every era of human history where unions of some form occur. That means it is NOT some kind of recent temporal insanity that is disrupting your world-view, it's been around a long looong time.

    Regardless of your feelings on THAT argument, you would have more basis if marriage was a purely religious bonding. However, marriage as an "institution" has many legal ramifications which your view-point would deny same-sex couples. Personally, if civil unions were authorized in every jurisdiction of the USA, and such unions granted same-sex couples ALL the legal rights and entitlements of a married opposite-sex couple then I believe there would be no problem. Thats because they could get the civil union license and then seek a wedding ceremony from one of those many religions I listed who conduct and sanctify same-sex marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    It's YOU who are being selective. You are saying basically, "as long as the MAJORITY of people have been doing it, that means EVERYONE has been doing it." I'm saying it has been going on since the dawn of effing time all over the world, in just about every era of human history where unions of some form occur. That means it is NOT some kind of recent temporal insanity that is disrupting your world-view, it's been around a long looong time.

    Regardless of your feelings on THAT argument, you would have more basis if marriage was a purely religious bonding. However, marriage as an "institution" has many legal ramifications which your view-point would deny same-sex couples. Personally, if civil unions were authorized in every jurisdiction of the USA, and such unions grants same-sex couples ALL the legal rights and entitlements of a married opposite-sex couple then I believe there would be no problem. Thats because they could get the civil union license and then seek a weding ceremony from one of those many religions I listed who conduct and sanctify same-sex marriages.
    And I'm saying that any pretense that homosexual marriage has been a fixture in human life throughout eternity is... well.... lying. There's no other way to put it. It is, in fact, a recent temporary insanity despite all the attempts by homosexuals to convince people that homosexual marriages were part of normal life for everyone UNTIL recent history. You can scour arcane history and find homosexual relationships and even some rare examples of homosexual unions that were recognized by "the state", but they are deviations from the norm. For most people, most cultures and most of history, gay marriage has been an oxymoron. I think the majority view has been correct on that all along.

    By the way, you are wrong in your assumption that there would be no problem if civil unions with all the benefits of marriage were bestowed. When they have been offered, they have been rejected. It's never been about the rights and that was, in my opinion, absolute proof of that. I was all on the "rights" bandwagon, too, until the homosexual community proved that was just the angle and not the real issue.
    Last edited by Papa bull; 06-27-13 at 04:03 PM.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    And because of that history, it's no surprise that homosexuals are trying to position themselves as a "race". If they can successfully convince people that their sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic like race, then they have a good legal argument for getting whatever they want up to and including affirmative action.
    I'm going to keep asking you this until you stop ignoring it:


    I'm sorry...is religion an "immutable characteristic"?
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    And I'm saying that any pretense that homosexual marriage has been a fixture in human life throughout eternity is... well.... lying. There's no other way to put it. It is, in fact, a recent temporary insanity despite all the attempts by homosexuals to convince people that homosexual marriages were part of normal life for everyone UNTIL recent history. You can scour arcane history and find homosexual relationships and even some rare examples of homosexual unions that were recognized by "the state", but they are deviations from the norm. For most people, most cultures and most of history, gay marriage has been an oxymoron. I think the majority view has been correct on that all along.
    So you are calling me a liar, despite the fact I provided factual statements about same-sex marriages or their equivalents existing in multiple cultures and throughout the history of couple-unions. Just off the cuff you say this without fact-checking yourself. Amazing. Simply amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    By the way, you are wrong in your assumption that there would be no problem if civil unions with all the benefits of marriage were bestowed. When they have been offered, they have been rejected. It's never been about the rights and that was, in my opinion, absolute proof of that. I was all on the "rights" bandwagon, too, until the homosexual community proved that was just the angle and not the real issue.
    In the first place, I meant "I" would see no problem. Still, when civil unions were first put forward many in the so-called "gay community" had hopes for them....UNTIL they found out that as simple "contracts" they were extremely limited and often dishonored by relatives of a "spouse" when it came to hospital visitation rights, wills, burial rights, and by States who issued them when it came to visitation rights in prison, death benefits, property ownership, etc., etc. etc. THATS when the "gay community" began to oppose the idea of civil unions.

    BTW I am not gay, but I believe in equal rights.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I'm sorry...is religion an "immutable characteristic"?
    Red herring. Freedom of Religion is a specified right in the Constitution.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I'm going to keep asking you this until you stop ignoring it:


    I'm sorry...is religion an "immutable characteristic"?
    Take it up with the Supreme Court. If you want to argue that homosexuality equates to religion, go for it. If you want to argue that homosexuality must be a suspect class since religion doesn't possess "immutable characteristics" in your opinion, you go for it. Good luck with that. Homosexuality is defined by behavior and there is no suspect class that is determined to be so based entirely on their behavior. But what the heck.... you give it your best shot. Maybe you can pave the way for child molesters, rapists or robbers to become suspect classes since they are also defined by their behavior.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Red herring. Freedom of Religion is a specified right in the Constitution.
    Thank you for making my point, we have rights that are not limited to "immutable characteristics". To argue that sexual orientation might not be an immutable characteristic and therefore no protections of rights can be associated with it, is false.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    And because of that history, it's no surprise that homosexuals are trying to position themselves as a "race". If they can successfully convince people that their sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic like race, then they have a good legal argument for getting whatever they want up to and including affirmative action.
    Tell you what, why don't you change your sexual orientation. Go ahead. I'll wait.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    So you are calling me a liar, despite the fact I provided factual statements about same-sex marriages or their equivalents existing in multiple cultures and throughout the history of couple-unions. Just off the cuff you say this without fact-checking yourself. Amazing. Simply amazing.



    In the first place, I meant "I" would see no problem. Still, when civil unions were first put forward many in the so-called "gay community" had hopes for them....UNTIL they found out that as simple "contracts" they were extremely limited and often dishonored by relatives of a "spouse" when it came to hospital visitation rights, wills, burial rights, and by States who issued them when it came to visitation rights in prison, death benefits, property ownership, etc., etc. etc. THATS when the "gay community" began to oppose the idea of civil unions.

    BTW I am not gay, but I believe in equal rights.
    Incest existed in numerous cultures over time, too and that doesn't mean they should be part of the norm in our society. I disagree about when civil unions became rejected. I think you're buying the propaganda instead of the truth. Here, get it from the horse's mouth.

    Gays Against Gay Marriage | Just another WordPress.com weblog

    Gay activists are rejecting civil unions that are literally identical to state-enforced marriage contracts except in name, on principle. This is because they want to mimic the religious heterosexuals that hate them.

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