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Thread: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Wow, asking for liberty while endorsing that the government just effectively took away the will of the people. Good move.
    The government is supposed to take away "the will of the people" when that will violates the US Constitution and its guarantees to all citizens, whether the majority likes it or not.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why should we not use the Constitution to strike down laws that violate the Constitution and the protections it guarantees to its citizens? It is stupid to have a Constitution to protect the people from the majority/government if the people are not supposed to use it to do just that.

    The individuals of the states should have more protections than the states, and that is a constitutional right enacted by the 14th Amendment.
    I've no conflict with any of that. I don't see homosexual marriage as an equal rights issue. It is a special rights issue. Homosexuals have always been able to get married. Just ask former New Joisey governor Jim McGreevey. It's the fact that homosexuals are treated just like everyone else that is actually the problem for them here. They don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex like everyone else has always done. They want something different. Something special to them. It's not about equal rights at all.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is what the people want, particularly the younger generations. This isn't about "social engineering" but rather about changing beliefs in views on homosexuality and marriage that are much more in line with our country's ideals of freedom and rights.
    When the beliefs have changed sufficiently, homosexual marriages will be endorsed by states. Militant rhetoric probably won't speed that process up, though. It's actually hardened my position. The verbal bullying doesn't work with me.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is what the people want, particularly the younger generations. This isn't about "social engineering" but rather about changing beliefs in views on homosexuality and marriage that are much more in line with our country's ideals of freedom and rights.
    Bull****. Younger generations always want this or that radical, different. They stop wanting it when they grow the hell up and realize it's unrealistic. This decision is nowhere in line with our country's ideals and it is indeed precisely social engineering you are describing.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I've no conflict with any of that. I don't see homosexual marriage as an equal rights issue. It is a special rights issue. Homosexuals have always been able to get married. Just ask former New Joisey governor Jim McGreevey. It's the fact that homosexuals are treated just like everyone else that is actually the problem for them here. They don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex like everyone else has always done. They want something different. Something special to them. It's not about equal rights at all.
    It is an equal rights issue. Just as you would or other heterosexuals want to be able to marry the person of your/their choice and believe we should have that right, the same goes for homosexuals. There is no legitimate reason to restrict marriage based on sex/gender because marriage laws in the US are not gender specific.

    Same sex couples enter into the same exact marriages that opposite sex couples are in. There is nothing special in that.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Bull****. Younger generations always want this or that radical, different. They stop wanting it when they grow the hell up and realize it's unrealistic. This decision is nowhere in line with our country's ideals and it is indeed precisely social engineering you are describing.
    No, this is not true. Younger generations change their minds on fiscal issues, not generally on social issues.

    Then I argue that trying to prevent same sex couples from marrying or even the acceptance of homosexuality to spread is just failed social engineering from a different group of people who would rather have things their way.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is an equal rights issue. Just as you would or other heterosexuals want to be able to marry the person of your/their choice and believe we should have that right, the same goes for homosexuals. There is no legitimate reason to restrict marriage based on sex/gender because marriage laws in the US are not gender specific.

    Same sex couples enter into the same exact marriages that opposite sex couples are in. There is nothing special in that.
    I can see that it will eventually be this way, but it's not that way yet. That's why only a dozen states have gay marriage written into their marriage laws. Marriage, to most people is still a man and a woman joining together and raising kids. Two homosexuals living together and mimicking the homosexual model is not what most people see as marriage and it's not what most state's see as marriage.

    Furthermore, it's not what homosexuals, for the most part, want out of their relationships. I don't know any with plans to marry and I know plenty that have told me heterosexuals are nuts for buying into the whole marriage thing. If homosexuals were going to be honest about this, it's not the rights that were ever really at issue, but the normalization of homosexuality that is the real goal.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    People want liberty.

    Slave owners were mad when they lost them the haters will be mad again.
    What nonsense, comparing those against homosexual marriage with slavers. And no, people don't want liberty, in fact I'd say most abhor it. It's too much work. They'd rather just let some court decide for them.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I can see that it will eventually be this way, but it's not that way yet. That's why only a dozen states have gay marriage written into their marriage laws. Marriage, to most people is still a man and a woman joining together and raising kids. Two homosexuals living together and mimicking the homosexual model is not what most people see as marriage and it's not what most state's see as marriage.
    Marriage to most people is not a man and a woman only, and certainly does not include raising kids. You yourself said that it is not right to look down on those married couples who are childless, so that shows that you don't think that marriages are only those that include children. And many don't feel that children are necessary for a marriage. They simply don't want same sex couples to marry and use procreation/raising children as an excuse.

    Most people in the past did not see interracial couples living together as a valid relationship or marriage and wanted them prevented, particularly in the South.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Awaiting the Supreme Court's gay marriage decisions [W:641]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, this is not true. Younger generations change their minds on fiscal issues, not generally on social issues.
    Not even close to true. It's been noted historically (the old quote attributed to Churchill).

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Then I argue that trying to prevent same sex couples from marrying or even the acceptance of homosexuality to spread is just failed social engineering from a different group of people who would rather have things their way.
    Then you'd argue wrongly. What you note was already the status quo.

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