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Thread: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Really? How did the unions stop innovative modern design...say...in the early 70's....when we had the gas crises and the rise of below cost imports into the US?
    That's called competition and businesses must be able to at least temporarily adjust wages and benefits to react to the new pressure. That's what I mean by salad days and the unions are precisely why they didn't have the flexibility to adjust and build through those times.

    Look, I've never been a fan of the Detroit designs, they've never been designed with anyone under 6' in mind. But it wasn't the design that sank them - it was the gas mileage. Auto manufacturers all over the US had the same problem and yet they survived. Some of them with little to no immediate design changes.

    As I said initially, it wasn't just the unions, though they were a huge part of it. It was also the corrupt local political environment that wortked with the unions ensuring they paid each other off.

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    You can't pay debt with pocket lint.




    Who said that you could?

    You are projecting and answering unasked questions.

    A lot of people on the right would like to see America fail, so that they could claim that President Obama failed.

    America will not fail.

    But a lot of out of touch losers on the right will.



    "Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I see you have brought nothing to support your previous claim that unions prevented the Big 3 from modernizing their designs.

    All you have is empty rhetoric shifting to city govt workers causing lower city revenues.

    Next up: Soup Kitchens Caused the Great Depression!
    It wasn't their designs that stopped me from buying American. It was their chintzy interior workmanship and materials. One would climb into a Cadillac and compare that to the $10K less Lexus and there was/is absolutely no comparison. Rattles. Vinyl. Cheap-assed plastic. Why is that? That's not design. That's a need to economize. Why?

    Oh, and yes, their gas mileage. My 2007 Lexus gets 25 mpg in town; 34-35 highway. It's not advertised as economical on gas. What's that about? It's certainly not about technology.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I see you have brought nothing to support your previous claim that unions prevented the Big 3 from modernizing their designs.

    All you have is empty rhetoric shifting to city govt workers causing lower city revenues.

    Next up: Soup Kitchens Caused the Great Depression!
    Its liberalism. The parasites kill the host eventually.

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That's called competition and businesses must be able to at least temporarily adjust wages and benefits to react to the new pressure. That's what I mean by salad days and the unions are precisely why they didn't have the flexibility to adjust and build through those times.

    Look, I've never been a fan of the Detroit designs, they've never been designed with anyone under 6' in mind. But it wasn't the design that sank them - it was the gas mileage. Auto manufacturers all over the US had the same problem and yet they survived. Some of them with little to no immediate design changes.

    As I said initially, it wasn't just the unions, though they were a huge part of it. It was also the corrupt local political environment that wortked with the unions ensuring they paid each other off.
    Oh, so you are saying the the Big 3 had no money to develop modern designs for the US.....even though GM and Ford were international corporations with complete designs already in production in Europe?

    Further, we could get into the GM/Toyota NUMMI experiment ....if you really want to discuss the inability of union workers to cooperate...
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It wasn't their designs that stopped me from buying American. It was their chintzy interior workmanship and materials. One would climb into a Cadillac and compare that to the $10K less Lexus and there was/is absolutely no comparison. Rattles. Vinyl. Cheap-assed plastic. Why is that? That's not design. That's a need to economize. Why?

    Oh, and yes, their gas mileage. My 2007 Lexus gets 25 mpg in town; 34-35 highway. It's not advertised as economical on gas. What's that about? It's certainly not about technology.
    Psst....material is DESIGN......the build (workmanship) is DESIGN. MPG....is DESIGN

    The wonderful mileage of your Lexus is all a matter of technology...ie DESIGN.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Psst....material is DESIGN......the build (workmanship) is DESIGN. MPG....is DESIGN
    When I think of the design of an automobile, I think of how it looks not how cheaply it's made. Your pointing out that it means workmanship and mpg doesn't change anything I've said.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    From Kilpatrick?
    Did you misread my statement? Th

    Oh, you are just throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks.
    Conservative Philosophy: Throw it against the wall and see what sticks.

    Liberal Philosophy: Throw it against the wall and see what sticks. If it sticks, tax it. If it doesn't stick to the wall, tape it there.

    After all, we know too that unions ruined the US steel industry.....they are to blame for EVERYTHING....ER!
    That's closest thing to the truth you have said this whole thread.

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    When I think of the design of an automobile, I think of how it looks not how cheaply it's made. Your pointing out that it means workmanship and mpg doesn't change anything I've said.
    You are talking about the styling. I am talking about the mechanical DESIGN of the vehicle. Unions had little to nothing to do with the designing of Detroit's vehicles, that was all done in the executive. It was their poor design choices that directly lead to the decline of the US auto industry....along with the absolute lack of industrial planning....that lead to the subsequent decline of Detroit.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Psst....material is DESIGN......the build (workmanship) is DESIGN. MPG....is DESIGN

    The wonderful mileage of your Lexus is all a matter of technology...ie DESIGN.
    No, it's not. If you're wondering why Detroit didn't react with smaller engines and thus greater gas mileage, well, power vehicles were their schtick. They did change body styles (design), which added some small mileage increases, but it would have never have been enough to compete in the high gas mileage market without sacrificing what they were known for - power vehicles.

    And the market for power vehicles returned. Detroit did not have the flexibility (because of the unions) to ride out the temporarily weak market for their vehicles.

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