FBI director: Surveillance programs might have prevented 9/11

What complete BS! The Boston Bombers did their thing with all this surveillance in place. There is no reason to believe the dots would have been connected when their were so many dots to connect in the Boston case. The ball was dropped then and there is no reason to believe it would not have been dropped 9-11. Talk about trying to cover your worthless spying on the American people liar ass.:roll:

"Amid ongoing debate about the propriety of U.S. government programs tracking private citizens' phone and internet use, FBI Director Robert Mueller said Thursday that the government might have prevented the 9/11 terrorist attacks had similar surveillance programs been in place in 2001."

"Mueller, addressing the House Judiciary Committee just months before the end of his 12-year tenure, outlined a sequence of intelligence data that was collected leading up to the attacks, and argued that the controversial programs, which collect telephone numbers and metadata, could have helped national security experts connect the dots relating to the plan -- and even "derailed" it entirely."

FBI director: Surveillance programs might have prevented 9/11 - CBS News

sawyerloggingon said:

What complete BS! The Boston Bombers did their thing with all this surveillance in place. There is no reason to believe the dots would have been connected when their were so many dots to connect in the Boston case. The ball was dropped then and there is no reason to believe it would not have been dropped 9-11. Talk about trying to cover your worthless spying on the American people liar ass.:roll:
"Amid ongoing debate about the propriety of U.S. government programs tracking private citizens' phone and internet use, FBI Director Robert Mueller said Thursday that the government might have prevented the 9/11 terrorist attacks had similar surveillance programs been in place in 2001."

"Mueller, addressing the House Judiciary Committee just months before the end of his 12-year tenure, outlined a sequence of intelligence data that was collected leading up to the attacks, and argued that the controversial programs, which collect telephone numbers and metadata, could have helped national security experts connect the dots relating to the plan -- and even "derailed" it entirely." FBI director: Surveillance programs might have prevented 9/11 - CBS News

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I guess they would have also stopped newtown, Aurora, Oregon...

Total BS. How does the FBI think that these wide sweeping surveillance programs would have helped when the Russian government warns us we may have a terrorist and we can't get them? BS. I totally agree Sawyer.

It's not surprising that he would say something like this. The government is obviously going to use fear as its main defense of its surveillance programs. It wants to scare its critics into accepting its position. Some people are going to buy into it - hopefully most won't.

I'm not going to be scared into giving up my 4th Amendment rights.

though i don't like it, i think it has probably stopped some attacks. that being said, it wouldn't have stopped 9/11. all of the computer monitoring in the world can't overcome the mindset at the time. it was simply unimaginable.

i like that we're having a thorough national discussion about this. i wish that the partisan angle could be removed, though, as it should be. the "patriot" act was passed multiple times with overwhelmingly bipartisan support. i have always been and remain exceptionally uncomfortable with it.

sawyerloggingon said:

What complete BS! The Boston Bombers did their thing with all this surveillance in place. There is no reason to believe the dots would have been connected when their were so many dots to connect in the Boston case. The ball was dropped then and there is no reason to believe it would not have been dropped 9-11. Talk about trying to cover your worthless spying on the American people liar ass.:roll:

"Amid ongoing debate about the propriety of U.S. government programs tracking private citizens' phone and internet use, FBI Director Robert Mueller said Thursday that the government might have prevented the 9/11 terrorist attacks had similar surveillance programs been in place in 2001."

"Mueller, addressing the House Judiciary Committee just months before the end of his 12-year tenure, outlined a sequence of intelligence data that was collected leading up to the attacks, and argued that the controversial programs, which collect telephone numbers and metadata, could have helped national security experts connect the dots relating to the plan -- and even "derailed" it entirely."

FBI director: Surveillance programs might have prevented 9/11 - CBS News

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I'm with you on this one. The USA was forewarned about 9-11 by Israel, France, Russia and Germany and CIA briefings and FBI agents and nothing was done. It's an outright lie to even assert that the current level of internal surveillance could have prevented that. 9-11 flaunted the ineptitude of the First incompetent's leadership, that'd be GWBush hisself, but the decider has the last word and the last word seemed to be "OK, you've covered your ass."

Helix said:

though i don't like it, i think it has probably stopped some attacks.

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I agree with you that it's probably stopped some attacks, but the question for me is "has it prevented attacks that couldn't have been prevented by other means?" I'm not sure that the answer would be "yes."

ThePlayDrive said:

It's not surprising that he would say something like this. The government is obviously going to use fear as its main defense of its surveillance programs. It wants to scare its critics into accepting its position. Some people are going to buy into it - hopefully most won't.

I'm not going to be scared into giving up my 4th Amendment rights.

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Ben Franklin:

Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security

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ThePlayDrive said:

I agree with you that it's probably stopped some attacks, but the question for me is "has it prevented attacks that couldn't have been prevented by other means?" I'm not sure that the answer would be "yes."

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my guess is yes. my question : given the certainty that this tool is expanding beyond terrorism and into general law enforcement, is this something that we want? if so, shouldn't the fourth amendment be amended rather than legislated around?

there is an astounding potential for abuse here.

Director Mueller was probably told by Obama to get up there & lie or he would be purged much the same as anyone else who has disagreed with this regime. I would also point out that 9-11 probably could have been prevented had Bill Clinton taken Bin Laden from Sudan when he was offered. Kind of Ironic now that Clinton is all for this constitutional intrusion of rights.

There's no way to quantify this statement.. Total BS. I am personally ok with having a large computer sift through calls from unsightly sources, but data, NO FREAKING way is that constitutional, the basic Miranda warning would need to be changed to read.

You have the right to remain silent, well sort of; anything you say or have ever said will be used against you, you have a right to an attorney, should you not be able to afford an attorney one will be appointed for you. LOL


Tim-

Helix said:

my guess is yes.

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They were effective at preventing terrorism after 9/11 without the program. Moreover, successful attacks on terrorism, including the latest attack, were completed even after warning signs were detected outside of these programs. We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one, but the fact that the government seems quite capable of sniffing out terrorists without these surveillance programs makes me question their usefulness.

my question : given the certainty that this tool is expanding beyond terrorism and into general law enforcement, is this something that we want? if so, shouldn't the fourth amendment be amended rather than legislated around?

there is an astounding potential for abuse here.

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There is a large potential for abuse, but there is also a large potential for other problems as well. Research shows that people behave differently when they know they are under surveillance - they stifle authenticity to act more "mainstream", they restrict their behavior, in general and so on. When you apply that to society as a whole, such surveillance has the ability to stifle creative and critical thought which are often the foundations of an effective democracy. I won't support that.

Because of that and other reasons, I would have to say no, that's not something that, at least, I want. I want to be protected from terrorism, but not to the point where the life that I'm protecting is negatively influenced to an unacceptable degree. And, under no circumstances do I think the 4th amendment should be amended. There is an argument for the idea that times have changed and so the Constitution must change as well, but I don't find it compelling in this case.

Iron Yank said:

Director Mueller was probably told by Obama to get up there & lie or he would be purged much the same as anyone else who has disagreed with this regime. I would also point out that 9-11 probably could have been prevented had Bill Clinton taken Bin Laden from Sudan when he was offered. Kind of Ironic now that Clinton is all for this constitutional intrusion of rights.

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Nobody ever talks about that....

CBS just concluded their investigation into Sheryll Atkinsons Computer.

She's the reporter that investigated the Fast and Furious Scandal.

A third party cyber computer firm ran forensic analisys and found her PC had been illegally accessed by a third party who basically routed around for info and tried to cover their tracks.

This administration is blatantly criminal.

So why would anyone trust them when they say they're following the scope of article 215 in the Patriot Act ?

sawyerloggingon said:

What complete BS! The Boston Bombers did their thing with all this surveillance in place. There is no reason to believe the dots would have been connected when their were so many dots to connect in the Boston case. The ball was dropped then and there is no reason to believe it would not have been dropped 9-11. Talk about trying to cover your worthless spying on the American people liar ass.:roll:

"Amid ongoing debate about the propriety of U.S. government programs tracking private citizens' phone and internet use, FBI Director Robert Mueller said Thursday that the government might have prevented the 9/11 terrorist attacks had similar surveillance programs been in place in 2001."

"Mueller, addressing the House Judiciary Committee just months before the end of his 12-year tenure, outlined a sequence of intelligence data that was collected leading up to the attacks, and argued that the controversial programs, which collect telephone numbers and metadata, could have helped national security experts connect the dots relating to the plan -- and even "derailed" it entirely."

FBI director: Surveillance programs might have prevented 9/11 - CBS News

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I actually caught Poindexters presentation to congress for the original program.

Surfing through channels and flipped by CSPAN and caught the logo in the background and was like WTF?

Check it out:

Information Awareness Office - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Considering the conspiracies surrounding that symbolism I couldn't believe they'd actually use it.

Congress.shut them down but the just moved across the hall, changed the name, and tapped another appropriation.

They've been watching us since 2002.

What if...? said:

I actually caught Poindexters presentation to congress for the original program.

Surfing through channels and flipped by CSPAN and caught the logo in the background and was like WTF?

Check it out:

Information Awareness Office - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Considering the conspiracies surrounding that symbolism I couldn't believe they'd actually use it.

Congress.shut them down but the just moved across the hall, changed the name, and tapped another appropriation.

They've been watching us since 2002.

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Looks like an interesting link. It stopped raining so I'm going to work but I'll read this later.

I totally agree. It is completely possible that this program might have stopped the 9/11 attacks. On the other hand, it's also possible that a flock of geese could have prevented the attacks by disabling all of the aircraft before the hijacking occurred.

Neither of these things happened.

Deuce said:

I totally agree. It is completely possible that this program might have stopped the 9/11 attacks. On the other hand, it's also possible that a flock of geese could have prevented the attacks by disabling all of the aircraft before the hijacking occurred.

Neither of these things happened.

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Good point. Maybe we should start a goose based anti-terrorism program. After all, if it increases the chances of improving our safety, it should be done.

ThePlayDrive said:

Good point. Maybe we should start a goose based anti-terrorism program. After all, if it increases the chances of improving our safety, it should be done.

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I've had enough near-misses with those bastards as it is, I'd say the FBI has already implemented this program in secret.