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US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

then you admit you were wrong in your assessment of the nation's objective in iraq
it was not simply to overthrow saddam's regime
it was nation building
love it when a member's posts refute his own earlier arguments

Right, Let them do the nation building, with the understanding that if they don't get it right next time they'll be meeting up with those virgins much sooner than they may have intended,
 
The only view of the future that Nostradamus had that I see coming true is the third and maybe final world war starting in the middle east.
Mr. Transparent Administration is going to feel the need to get our minds off the IRS, AP, Benghazi, Fast and Furious, James Rosen "scandals".
And to do that nothing better than a war to get everyone's mind off what is eating away at our nations future.
 
Yeah.....I know as well. Course myself I am not stuck with the tunnelvision in believing that anything has to be done with Syria to deal with Iran. Such was always a false premise from the start. ;)

Speaking of false premises ... this conceit on the part of the media who believe Obama is somehow better than Bush/Cheney in the area of foreign policy.

If we had to count the number of Liberal hypocrites who think Obama better with war policy than Bush, I'd run out of fingers.

DemSocialist for all his partisan threads, seems to be unaware of the censorship, lies and bull shine being pushed on us by almost all the "Progressive" shows.

Completely demoralizing the audience, spinning relentlessly to hide Obama War crimes very similar to Dubya, telling viewers constantly that Americans are a bunch of dummies, their petitions don't matter, wars are caused by religion (not oil companies), don't go out and protest its useless, lying about every Obama war under the sun, dumbing down the audience, and thats not just Bill Maher and John
Stewart,either saying some of those things, those are the Air America Radio people doing that. Judging by their own words they are more like the Thought Police, than the Right Wing sometimes.
 
These Jihad morons have not been destroyed or even seriously reduced by our venturing into their prime recruiting grounds, in fact, the opposite is likely true - the "invasion" of their homelands by "infidels" actually aids in their recruiting efforts. Better to zap the Jihad "leaders" using intel, special ops and drones than to attempt to play nation builder in their chosen "safe zones" overseas.


Yeah and many of those Jihadis are trained by U.S. special forces in Libya and Syria, and not just lately but the last two years my friend.

"It’s time to stop pretending.

The deafening silence and hypocrisy of liberals and many so-called progressives, and the concomitant complicity by much of the left, in their tacit support for the criminal, smoke & mirror economic policies and ongoing war strategies of the Obama / Biden administration is absolutely indefensible. "

BlackCommentator.com - September 3 , 2009 - Issue 340


"Myth: The CIA is interested in protecting the United States from national security threats, not brainwashing the American people and controlling their perceptions of their country and of its relation to the outside world.

"Fact: The CIA justifies its miserable, evil, and corrupt existence by creating its own enemies. Sometimes, this means arming, funding, and training terrorists, especially those of the Islamic variety. And sometimes, it means creating imaginary threats out of scratch and making the world believe that they are real threats by constantly pushing the image of the invented threats into the public mind through the mass media. '


Debunking 10 Myths About The CIA?s Psychological Occupation of The American Mind - BlackListedNews.com

"The US government has today decided to impose swingeing sanctions on Syria, even freezing all its assets. This is a long-expected attack on Syria, aimed at destroying another obstacle to US control of the Middle East and preparing the way for an attack on Iran.

Clearly there are human rights concerns in Syria, but banning exports of oil will effectively also ban imports of food, medicine and other humanitarian goods.

The move has been supported by Human Rights Watch, who seem to have forgotten the lessons of the Iraqi sanctions, or perhaps are so wedded to US foreign policy that they don’t care."

Syria sanctions: infanticide masquerading as policy? « Human rights investigations


Second Israeli bombing of Syria under reported by mass media ...

Powerful Explosions Shake Damascus As Israel Attacks Syria For Second Time In Past Week

Powerful Explosions Shake Damascus As Israel Attacks Syria For Second Time In Past Week | Zero Hedge

Foreign Death Squad Network in Syria Larger Than Stated by West

Activist Post: Foreign Death Squad Network in Syria Larger Than Stated by West


This is the behavior of a war criminal - :soap


Pentagon Shoots Down Kerry’s Syria Airstrike Plan

Pentagon Shoots Down Kerry



 
The only view of the future that Nostradamus had that I see coming true is the third and maybe final world war starting in the middle east.Mr. Transparent Administration is going to feel the need to get our minds off the IRS, AP, Benghazi, Fast and Furious, James Rosen "scandals". And to do that nothing better than a war to get everyone's mind off what is eating away at our nations future.

LOL. :thumbs:

Mr. Transparent, indeed. (Transparent phoney, that is)

If you ever needed any proof that America had become a Military Dictatorship complete with fixed elections, look no further than commercial talk radio.

Try calling into some of these "Progressive" shows like Mike Malloy, Norman Goldman, Ed Schultz, or Randi Rhodes, and say "I want Healthcare like in Britian," and Ed will scream "Thats socialism !," at you, and hang up like he did on this one guy. Or call in and stray from the Democrat Party line and SLAM, they hang up on you, or like on the Thom Hartman show, he just talks right over the voice of the caller.

And thats not just discussing "secret" stuff like Snowden, or arming terrorists in Syria either, thats ANYTHING critical of Obama and the Democrats.

Beam Me Up
:aliens3:
 
then you admit you were wrong in your assessment of the nation's objective in iraq
it was not simply to overthrow saddam's regime
it was nation building
love it when a member's posts refute his own earlier arguments

No, the objective was to remove Saddams regime. We did that.
 
Any loss America suffers is going to be a political loss. Americans defeat themselves at home first.

The lesson should be that you go in and destroy the government, just as was done in Afghanistan and Iraq, and not waste any time about it. When you stay around too long, anything over over three months perhaps, many Americans will mobilize and eventually turn on each other. That's why I don't see the point in Syria, apart from not knowing who the bad guys really are.

History doesn't stop so it is not yet known what the outcomes will be in either Iraq or Afghanistan. But we should have learned that you move in quickly, remove the dictators in place, move out, and repeat until they learn to get along with their neighbors and respect the freedoms of the individual. Otherwise it just becomes a Whac-a-mole policy, which is what we have now.

I agree in part, though its debatable whether we have a responsibility to help a nation recover that we caused instability in.
 
No, the objective was to remove Saddams regime. We did that.

then i ask you again, if that was the objective, why did our troops remain in that theatre so long after that objective was accomplished?
 
I agree in part, though its debatable whether we have a responsibility to help a nation recover that we caused instability in.

It should be a given that the 'instability' was there before any action was taken. Both the Taliban and Saddam Hussein were given fair warning about what would happen should they not relinquish power, and each made the incorrect decision. The error, in both cases, was trying to create western type democracies from religiously oppressed peoples and always with more ambitious religious despots ready to take their place, keeping in mind that power in these places offers a lifestyle greater than anything we can imagine here.

This should be the attitude.

A story for which Charles James Napier is often noted involved Hindu priests complaining to him about the prohibition of Sati by British authorities. This was the custom of burning a widow alive on the funeral pyre of her husband. As first recounted by his brother William, he replied:

"Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."

That put a stop to that custom, and the west should act in the same manner. No more hanging Gays from lamp posts, stoning women to death, honor killings, not allowing children to attend schools, etc. But too many are excusing this behavior under the guise of 'multiculturalism'. It is inhuman and cowardly response that will eventually bite us in the ass.
 
To prevent having to go back again later.

and i thought they hanged saddam
didn't realize he was still around to prompt a return
 
Back to the point, Syrias civil war is not our problem unless it puts WMDs in the hands of AQ. Syria sponsoring terrorism has always been a problem though. Since our military is so great, we shouldn't have to supply arms to rebels. Kill Assad, destory the military, capture the WMDs, go home.
 
Again, the question I was asked was if we won the war in Iraq. Since the was was to defeat Sadaams army, the answer is YES.

I thought the neocons said Iraq is a part of the War on Terror? If that is the case then it is hardly "won."
 
Back to the point, Syrias civil war is not our problem unless it puts WMDs in the hands of AQ. Syria sponsoring terrorism has always been a problem though. Since our military is so great, we shouldn't have to supply arms to rebels. Kill Assad, destory the military, capture the WMDs, go home.

I love how people are always so willing to put other people's lives on the line.
 
Im not a neocon.

I didn't say you were. Do you not think the Iraq War is a part of the War on Terror? Do you not think the Bush Administration took advantage of a vulnerable citizenry by using scare tactics to get them to support the war?
 
That's what I pay for.

That's not what I pay for, at least willingly. What's so libertarian about the State taking my money by force and using it to drop bombs on neighborhoods in other countries?
 
I didn't say you were. Do you not think the Iraq War is a part of the War on Terror? Do you not think the Bush Administration took advantage of a vulnerable citizenry by using scare tactics to get them to support the war?

No, and yes. I do think Iraq war was part of the War on Terror, and I don't think Bush took advantage of us.
 
That's not what I pay for, at least willingly. What's so libertarian about the State taking my money by force and using it to drop bombs on neighborhoods in other countries?

Its constitutional, and necessary to defend my life. I don't agree with the entire scope of military involvement in the world, but Islamic fundamentalism is a clear threat, and it makes more sense to kill them before they kill us. Killing enemies does not reduce my liberty, thus its consistent with libertarianism.
 
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Then they should do what they they did in Europe. But instead they stayed to long and left too soon.

Sure, I agree with that. Ideally we would focus only on our direct enemies, and let the UN handle nation building. In WW2 though, we were mainly fighting for others, who had a vested interest in winning. No one ever significantly helps the US in defending itself. Ideally the French, Russians, Chinese, etc who we have fought for time and time again, would be in Iraq helping us out. But instead they want to fight us on everything we do. That means the US is always fighting uphill.
 
Ideally the French, Russians, Chinese, etc who we have fought for time and time again, would be in Iraq helping us out.

This was never feasible. U.S. policy makers should have known this from the onset. France and Germany repeatedly and in fairly great detail (post-invasion risks, gap between what is required to declare war and what evidence existed, etc., many of which proved prescient afterward when insurgency developed and no new WMD were found) outlined why they opposed a war. They were famously dismissed as "old Europe." China's and Russia's interests were not aligned with actual or perceived U.S. interests in Iraq, meaning that there was no chance that they would aid the war effort in any meaningful fashion. Russia correctly saw regime change in Iraq as posing a threat of regional instability and the overall balance of power that maintained reasonable stability, both with possible risks for its "near abroad." China favored non-intervention, as its focus is on sustaining its economic growth and evolution to great power. Intervention, it felt, would risk inviting pressure, even creating de facto license for intervention, in its own terrorities in which disputes exist or on behalf of movements aimed at fundamental political change. It also knows that its hunger for resources depends on having working relationships with a wide number of countries to minimize disruptions, even if those countries have harsh regimes.
 
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This was never feasible. U.S. policy makers should have known this from the onset. France and Germany repeatedly and in fairly great detail (post-invasion risks, gap between what is required to declare war and what evidence existed, etc., many of which proved prescient afterward when insurgency developed and no new WMD were found) outlined why they opposed a war. They were famously dismissed as "old Europe." China's and Russia's interests were not aligned with actual or perceived U.S. interests in Iraq, meaning that there was no chance that they would aid the war effort in any meaningful fashion. Russia correctly saw regime change in Iraq as posing a threat of regional instability and the overall balance of power that maintained reasonable stability, both with possible risks for its "near abroad." China favored non-intervention, as its focus is on sustaining its economic growth and evolution to great power. Intervention, it felt, would risk inviting pressure, even creating de facto license for intervention, in its own terrorities in which disputes exist or on behalf of movements aimed at fundamental political change. It also knows that its hunger for resources depends on having working relationships with a wide number of countries to minimize disruptions, even if those countries have harsh regimes.

We don't do whats feasible. We decide what needs to be done, and do it the best way we can. Again, what I said was it would be IDEAL if our allies who we have fought and died for would 100% back us up when we asked them to, but they are not as loyal as we are. The same goes for Syria, which is a threat to the US and the world. The Russians and Chinese want to play games instead dealing with a problem.
 
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