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US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

iguanaman said:
Policemen are bodies not weapons. We must not let others overpower the will of the people of Syria, it sets a terrible precedent.
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What is the 'will' of the people in Syria? Are the people those who identify annd support al-Qaida? We let others overpower the will of the people in this country. Abortion for convenience comes to mind. The precedent of overpowering the will of people was set long ago...thousands of years ago.
 
hfd said:
I've heard that story before. We were only going to send advisors. Recall?
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That does not mean that this time will be the same. Learning from history is not out of the question is it?
 
hfd said:
I've heard that story before. We were only going to send advisors. Recall?
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The Russians probably sold them the Sarin. The Russians are only interested in cash now. They have "embraced" the worst of capitalism.
 
hfd said:
What is the 'will' of the people in Syria? Are the people those who identify annd support al-Qaida? We let others overpower the will of the people in this country. Abortion for convenience comes to mind. The precedent of overpowering the will of people was set long ago...thousands of years ago.
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Someone who sees a civil war and thinks of abortion needs help. Everything is not about controlling women.
 
iguanaman said:
Someone who sees a civil war and thinks of abortion needs help. Everything is not about controlling women.
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Who said anything about 'controlling' women? Again, what is the will of the Syrian 'people'? And you still haven't given a real answer as to why we should involve ourselves in the affairs of a nation involved in a civil war? And, what if the Russians are correct? What if the administration is lying about the use of chemical weapons? What definitive evidence has Obama provided? Which rebels are we supporting? How do we determine where the military hardware goes? Can we be sure that no American will die in Syria? How many innocent civilians will US military equipment kill?
 
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Jredbaron96 said:
Police it? No, just do something when such a tragedy like this occurs.
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What about the tragedies in Bahrain, where Bahrani civilians were killed with US manufactured weapons and is a regime that we give support to? (World Report 2012: Bahrain | Human Rights Watch) (Revealed: America’s Arms Sales To Bahrain Amid Bloody Crackdown - ProPublica) (U.S. Backs Bahrain Royalty - WSJ.com)

I consistently find that the people who want to end tragedies like this are extremely selective in when and what they want to support. You'll have the exact same situation going on, but if the country doing it is a US ally, they suddenly turn a blind eye.
 
it appears obama gave in to pressure to do that which his less political instincts would have avoided

Syria: President Obama's forced hand - POLITICO

he can't have the far more popular democratic president running around calling him a "total fool," "lame" and a "total wuss," now, can he?

Bill Clinton splits with President Obama on Syria - Maggie Haberman - POLITICO

the hottest hawk in his retinue is identified by politico above as our brand new DIRECTOR OF THE NSA: ms susan rice

according to usatoday this morning, they're al qaeda (or close)

USAToday: Syrian rebels pledge loyalty to al-Qaeda

referring to al qaeda, the color crayon crowd from gannett reports that hardly on the run, "the terrorist group's influence is not waning"

and now "may take a greater role"

indeed, they're our best hope

Al Qaida-linked group Syria rebels once denied now key to anti-Assad victories | McClatchy

al qaeda in iraq (which has "killed hundreds of iraqis since us troops left a year ago") is eager to help

it's al nusra

it sees "no reason to hold elections if assad falls, 80% of syrians want islamic law"

and "when we're finished with assad we will fight the us," bragged al nusra soldiers to mcclatchy

our new allies are not very civil

tuesday: Syrian rebels executed a 14-year-old boy for insulting Islam - The Washington Post

the beheading of 14 year old mohammad is not an isolated incident

Islamic law comes to rebel-held areas of Syria - The Washington Post

leading from behind is expensive

U.S. proposes $50MILLION A DAY no-fly zone in Syria | Mail Online

so we'll just move tens of thousands of refugees here, to illinois, florida, pennsylvania, maryland and virginia

U.S. considers taking in Syrian refugees - latimes

they're gonna have to hitchhike the I4 corridor, however

the latimes points out, "cars are not provided"

and all for what?

New military aid President Barack Obama is sending to the Syrian opposition is unlikely to tip the balance in the rebels’ favor, experts said Thursday.

But after Obama’s public promise that chemical weapons use by the Syrian regime would be a “game changer” for U.S. policy toward the conflict, it may be just enough to preserve the president’s international credibility.
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Obama's no 'game changer' in Syria - POLITICO

18 months ago mighta made a difference

but now, just "an incremental escalation in us support that would not be enough to reverse the fortunes of a rebel force clearly on the ropes"

the maverick is (not) mollified

John McCain: Delay on Syria disgraceful - POLITICO

operations prism and boundless, criminal warrants against leakers and reporters, military action in afghanistan, libya and syria---obama is a backdoor neocon
 
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iguanaman said:
The Russians probably sold them the Sarin. The Russians are only interested in cash now. They have "embraced" the worst of capitalism.
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Do you have any evidence of this or is this just baseless speculation?
 
Lotta wars where the "Religion of Peace" dwells.
 
The leader of the Hezbollah has stated they will stay and fight the Syrian government until it's over. What he did not say is when this fiasco is over in 20 years they will take the arms provided by America and return to their homeland and use the weapons against Israel.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Actually, there has yet to be any actual proof is either groups used chemical weapons (UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use - Middle East - Al Jazeera English)

We have yet to see the "proof" the Obama administration says they have and I doubt that we will see it at all.
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UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use - Middle East - Al Jazeera English
A UN team of investigators into rights abuses in Syria has stressed there is no conclusive proof of either side in the conflict using chemical weapons ...
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is this going to be Obama's equivalent of the shrub's infamous unproven WMD claim, the one that took us into an unnecessary war?

there should be unquestionable PROOF before any change in American policy toward the syrian civil war is effected
 
Mr. Invisible said:
What about the tragedies in Bahrain, where Bahrani civilians were killed with US manufactured weapons and is a regime that we give support to?
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Then we should do something there as well.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Actually, there has yet to be any actual proof is either groups used chemical weapons (UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use - Middle East - Al Jazeera English)

We have yet to see the "proof" the Obama administration says they have and I doubt that we will see it at all.
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Chemical weapons used in Syria, according to British newspaper sources | euronews, world news

Chemical warfare in Syria

Syria medics treat hundreds of rebels for 'symptoms of chemical exposure' | World news | guardian.co.uk

They kinda did. Fortunately not on a larger scale, but they certainly did.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Chemical weapons used in Syria, according to British newspaper sources | euronews, world news

Chemical warfare in Syria

Syria medics treat hundreds of rebels for 'symptoms of chemical exposure' | World news | guardian.co.uk

They kinda did. Fortunately not on a larger scale, but they certainly did.
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How about you read your own links?


Chemical weapons used in Syria, according to British newspaper sources | euronews, world news

The British press has released details of the use of chemical weapons in the Syrian conflict.

The Times reported that evidence has been discovered in a soil sample smuggled out of Syria. The newspapers sources refused to have their names revealed but said that “some kind of chemical weapon” has been used in the country. They could not tell whether Syrian President Bashar Assad’s forces or the rebels were responsible.
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Chemical warfare in Syria

"Reporters for Le Monde spent two months clandestinely in the Damascus area alongside Syrian rebels. They describe the extent of the Syrian tragedy, the intensity of the fighting, the humanitarian drama. On the scene during chemical weapons attacks, they bear witness to the use of toxic arms by the government of Bashar al-Assad."

Those reporters are with the rebel fighters and thus more likely to be biased in their reporting as when the ish goes down, they will have to depend upon the rebels to protect them. In addition to this, it doesn't change what the UN has reported. Yet, there is also some confusion, in regards to your last link, look here: Syrian sarin claims undermined by eyewitness accounts | World news | The Observer

Also some recent info: Eyewitness News: UN believes chemical weapons were used in Syria

"There are reasonable grounds to believe that limited quantities of toxic chemicals were used. It has not been possible, on the evidence available, to determine the precise chemical agents used, their delivery systems or the perpetrator," Paulo Pinheiro, who chairs the UN commission of inquiry, told a news conference in Geneva.
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Mr. Invisible said:
How about you read your own links?
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What's reading?

Those reporters are with the rebel fighters and thus more likely to be biased in their reporting
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What basis do you have for that claim?

And as for your last link, read it yourself. "There are reasonable grounds to believe that limited quantities of toxic chemicals were used."

Who do you think is more likely to have access to chemical weapons, the rebels or the Syrian government?
 
Jredbaron96 said:
What's reading?



What basis do you have for that claim?

And as for your last link, read it yourself. "There are reasonable grounds to believe that limited quantities of toxic chemicals were used."

Who do you think is more likely to have access to chemical weapons, the rebels or the Syrian government?
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So are you going to ignore the fact that your first link completely contradicted your statement that the Syrian government used chemical weapons?

In regards to my last link, I bolded and the important part which you are ignoring, that there is currently no evidence of who used those chemical weapons.

As for my claim on the reporters, I explained it in my post.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
So are you going to ignore the fact that your first link completely contradicted your statement that the Syrian government used chemical weapons?
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Let me ask you yet again: Who is more likely to have chemical weapons? The rebels? Or the Syrian Government?

In regards to my last link, I bolded and the important part which you are ignoring, that there is currently no evidence of who used those chemical weapons.
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I did not ignore it. You should stop projecting; it's not a good debate tactic.

As for my claim on the reporters, I explained it in my post.
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And what about it? The reporters are not their to support the Syrian rebel cause; they are there to report. What exactly is the bias coming in?
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I did not ignore it. You should stop projecting; it's not a good debate tactic.
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I am not projecting :) You stated

Jredbaron96 said:
Chemical weapons used in Syria, according to British newspaper sources | euronews, world news

Chemical warfare in Syria

Syria medics treat hundreds of rebels for 'symptoms of chemical exposure' | World news | guardian.co.uk

They kinda did. Fortunately not on a larger scale, but they certainly did.
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I proved that the first article completely did not back up what you said as it stated "The newspapers sources refused to have their names revealed but said that “some kind of chemical weapon” has been used in the country. They could not tell whether Syrian President Bashar Assad’s forces or the rebels were responsible."

You responded with

Jredbaron96 said:
What's reading?
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In the last article I posted, I quoted the article as stating that there was not any proof as to who had used chemical weapons. "It has not been possible, on the evidence available, to determine the precise chemical agents used, their delivery systems or the perpetrator," Paulo Pinheiro, who chairs the UN commission of inquiry, told a news conference in Geneva."


You responded with

Jredbaron96 said:
And as for your last link, read it yourself. "There are reasonable grounds to believe that limited quantities of toxic chemicals were used."

Who do you think is more likely to have access to chemical weapons, the rebels or the Syrian government?
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Thus, you did not address the points that I made that 1) Your first article completely went against what you stated and 2) You ignored where I quoted the article as stating that we didn't know who had used the chemical weapons. You replied with quote from that same article stating the chemical weapons were used. We are not arguing about whether or not they were used, but who used them.


Jredbaron96 said:
Let me ask you yet again: Who is more likely to have chemical weapons? The rebels? Or the Syrian Government?
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In terms of likelihood of who is more likely to have chemical weapons, it is the Syrian government, however that doesn't change the fact that there is still no evidence as to who used chemical weapons.



Jredbaron96 said:
And what about it? The reporters are not their to support the Syrian rebel cause; they are there to report. What exactly is the bias coming in?
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I explained that they are with the rebels (as was stated in the article) and when the fighting occurs, they have to depend upon said rebels to protect them, thus they could be potentially biased in favor of the rebels, seeing as how those rebels are protecting them.
 
hfd said:
Who said anything about 'controlling' women? Again, what is the will of the Syrian 'people'? And you still haven't given a real answer as to why we should involve ourselves in the affairs of a nation involved in a civil war? And, what if the Russians are correct? What if the administration is lying about the use of chemical weapons? What definitive evidence has Obama provided? Which rebels are we supporting? How do we determine where the military hardware goes? Can we be sure that no American will die in Syria? How many innocent civilians will US military equipment kill?
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You have no right to ask about innocents if you just want to sit by and watch them die. A Govt. does not have the right to make war on its people. If they won't negotiate they must be removed.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
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Very well. You have proven me incorrect. I concede this debate.

I only maintain that if chemical weapons were used, they were certainly of the Syrian army, as I seriously doubt that the rebel forces would be able to manufacture Sarin gas.
 
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