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Thread: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

  1. #371
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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    A little research goes a long way when understanding terrorism:

    All terrorist acts are motivated by two things:

    Social and political injustice: People choose terrorism when they are trying to right what they perceive to be a social or political or historical wrong—when they have been stripped of their land or rights, or denied these.
    The belief that violence or its threat will be effective, and usher in change. Another way of saying this is: the belief that violent means justify the ends. Many terrorists in history said sincerely that they chose violence after long deliberation, because they felt they had no choice.

    Zionists who bombed British targets in 1930s mandate Palestine felt they must do so in order to create a Jewish state.

    The IRA (Irish Republican Army) bombed English targets in the 1980s to make the point that they felt their land was colonized by British imperialists.

    In the 1960s and 1970s, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine felt that armed attacks in Israel were a justifiable response to the usurpation of their land.

    Osama bin Laden's declaration of war on American interests in the 1990s stemmed from his belief that U.S. troops stationed in Saudi Arabia represented an abomination to the kind of Islamic state he believed should exist in the Arabian peninsula.

    Uighur separatists in China today feel that Chinese religious repression (the Uighur Chinese are Muslims) justifies their terrorist tactics.

    In some cases, people choose terrorist tactics based on a cause whose righteousness they believe in to the exclusion of nearly all else. Abortion clinic bombers in the 1990s and groups such as the Animal Liberation Front believe zealously in their causes.

    Causes of Terrorism -- The Two Causes of Terrorism
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  2. #372
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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    And he most like would have never been given the power if it wasn't for US and UK involvement in Iran. That is the point I am making.

    It's circular logic. The revolution launched as an effort to maintain the oppression of Religious minorities, so for the Shah to never come into power the oppression of religious minorities would have continued and, by your own argument, would have lead to revolution by the religious minorities. So it's a wash by your own argument.

    But in reality the Iranian revolution was not a response to oppression, it was against modernization and greater liberty.


    Everything I said is well acknowledged by historians.

    Did I say it wasn't? I said your view ignores a significant piece of the puzzle. But then it has to to reach the conclusions you have reached.



    Did the US government fund the Islamic radicals? No. That is not the issue that pissed off Iranians.

    You miss my point entirely. The Iranian Revolution was not a response to brutality since the people saw brutality from both sides. Women were far more brutalized by the Iranian theocratic powers than by the Shah's government. What fueled the Iranian Revolution was the fear of the Shah's attempts to move Iran to a more moderate westernized society. Where the Iranian Revolution saw evil in the West was in this modernization effort, not from government oppression.


    Why is it Germany supported Hitler? They were desperate. They looked to a leader who would take them out of destitution.

    Can we tackle just one of your gross generalizations at a time please?


    Never claimed it was a peaceful movement.

    No, but if you wish to paint them as being born as a counter to repression you do need to show that the people saw them as a viable path from repression. They obviously didn't.


    So the taking of US hostages was what? Another attack on the Shah's policies? Please.

    Yes. The Revolution saw the US as the source of the Westernization of Iran embodied in the Shah's attempts to make Iranian politics open to religious minorities.

  3. #373
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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    A little research goes a long way when understanding terrorism:

    All terrorist acts are motivated by two things:

    Social and political injustice: People choose terrorism when they are trying to right what they perceive to be a social or political or historical wrong—when they have been stripped of their land or rights, or denied these.
    The belief that violence or its threat will be effective, and usher in change. Another way of saying this is: the belief that violent means justify the ends. Many terrorists in history said sincerely that they chose violence after long deliberation, because they felt they had no choice.

    Zionists who bombed British targets in 1930s mandate Palestine felt they must do so in order to create a Jewish state.

    The IRA (Irish Republican Army) bombed English targets in the 1980s to make the point that they felt their land was colonized by British imperialists.

    In the 1960s and 1970s, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine felt that armed attacks in Israel were a justifiable response to the usurpation of their land.

    Osama bin Laden's declaration of war on American interests in the 1990s stemmed from his belief that U.S. troops stationed in Saudi Arabia represented an abomination to the kind of Islamic state he believed should exist in the Arabian peninsula.

    Uighur separatists in China today feel that Chinese religious repression (the Uighur Chinese are Muslims) justifies their terrorist tactics.

    In some cases, people choose terrorist tactics based on a cause whose righteousness they believe in to the exclusion of nearly all else. Abortion clinic bombers in the 1990s and groups such as the Animal Liberation Front believe zealously in their causes.

    Causes of Terrorism -- The Two Causes of Terrorism


    Yes, anything you get from Ask.com does indeed constitute "a little research".

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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Yes, anything you get from Ask.com does indeed constitute "a little research".
    Are you guys doing a research paper? The link gives a good summary. But if you're in the mood to read a scholarly article then here you go:

    http://www.utexas.edu/law/journals/t...214.Newman.PDF
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    It's circular logic. The revolution launched as an effort to maintain the oppression of Religious minorities, so for the Shah to never come into power the oppression of religious minorities would have continued and, by your own argument, would have lead to revolution by the religious minorities. So it's a wash by your own argument.
    It was never my argument that the revolution was not motivated by religious fanatics. My argument was that US interventionism put many of the events into motion.


    But in reality the Iranian revolution was not a response to oppression, it was against modernization and greater liberty.
    The taking of US hostages was in response to US interventionism.




    Did I say it wasn't? I said your view ignores a significant piece of the puzzle. But then it has to to reach the conclusions you have reached.
    You said the opposite of my 'hypothesis' happened, meaning you think what I have stated was false.




    You miss my point entirely.
    You are clearly missing mine.

    The Iranian Revolution was not a response to brutality since the people saw brutality from both sides.
    So someone who experiences brutality is not likely to deal out brutality themselves in response? How you figure?

    Women were far more brutalized by the Iranian theocratic powers than by the Shah's government.
    Yes, they were. That is not the point.

    What fueled the Iranian Revolution was the fear of the Shah's attempts to move Iran to a more moderate westernized society. Where the Iranian Revolution saw evil in the West was in this modernization effort, not from government oppression.
    It was the straw that broke the camel's back. The resentment did not happen overnight. It was building since the 1950s and even earlier.



    Can we tackle just one of your gross generalizations at a time please?
    You don't wish to address it because it illustrates my point: people will look up to leaders, even crazy ones, when desperate enough.


    No, but if you wish to paint them as being born as a counter to repression you do need to show that the people saw them as a viable path from repression. They obviously didn't.
    It was borne out of many circumstances and events. To ignore the US impact on Iranian history is a demonstration of ignorance or denial.



    Yes. The Revolution saw the US as the source of the Westernization of Iran embodied in the Shah's attempts to make Iranian politics open to religious minorities.
    If overthrowing democratic governments, installing puppet governments, and promoting a secret police force is Westernization then Iranians had good reason to oppose it.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  6. #376
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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yeah.....I know as well. Course myself I am not stuck with the tunnelvision in believing that anything has to be done with Syria to deal with Iran. Such was always a false premise from the start.
    image: dumbed down tabloid twits: Bill Maher blames Middle east conflicts on the Koran. Bill Maher and Ann Coulter are part of the Media Circus like Alex Jones, Mike Malloy, Norman Goldman, Randi Rhodes, which intentionally eclipse and delegitimize serious protests, and dissent of destructive U.S. policy with antics, false dialectics, and religion.




    Thom Hartman, Mike Malloy, Norm Goldman, and other shows like Democracy Now, or Ring of Fire, spends dozens of hours on the Keystone pipeline, while tens of thousands of innocent Syrian civillians are being killed by terrorists armed by Obama and Hillary.

    Hello !?!

    You Liberal weenie broadcast hosts, the Syrian people are DYING NOW -

    (not 50 years from now, by a Keystone pipeline NOT EVEN BUILT YET !!!)


    __________________________________________________ __________

    And stop going back to Bush/Cheney war crimes ON YOUR SHOWS, take care of what happens on your OWN PRESIDENTS WATCH ... the guy you voted for!

    Hypocrites!
    __________________________________________________ __________


    Religion with regard to the war in Syria is a propaganda device used by the U.S. government. Mike Malloy also used this religion argument to brush off concerns with Syria and Middle East wars done for oil by Obama.

    They tried to spin "the surge" in Iraq as "sectarian violence" while John Negroponte trained, armed death squads under Dubya.

    The same is the case in Syria. The rebels in Syria are nothing but terrorist mercenary thugs, have no allegiance to Syria or religion, just killers for hire.

    And guess who U.S. special forces trained, armed them?

    You got it. President Obombers.

    The next war to prevent "terror" (AKA endless oil wars) in Syria using Americas 9/11 arch enemies "Al Queda"

    This photo is from the Council on Foreign Relations "Foreign Policy" magazine.



    "Image: Must be seen to believe - screenshot of FP's article literally titled, "Two Cheers for Syrian Islamists." The writer, Gary Gambill, comes from the Middle East Forum which regular features the warmongering rants of Neo-Cons like Daniel Pipes and Islamophobia-propagandist Robert Spencer. With the West now embracing "Islamists" (Al Qaeda), it has now begun selling the terrorists' cause in Russia's Caucasus region"

    by Tony Carlucci

    Land Destroyer: Global Blitzkrieg: West's Terror Battalions Eye Russia Next

    Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links - Telegraph



    Foreign Death Squad Network in Syria Larger Than Stated by West

    Activist Post: Foreign Death Squad Network in Syria Larger Than Stated by West



    Hillary Clinton and Middle East war crimes

    Hillary Clinton and Middle East war crimes - World Socialist Web Site



    More Than Thirty Top U.S. Officials Guilty of War Crimes


    More Than Thirty Top U.S. Officials Guilty of War Crimes | Global Research

    __________________________________________________ __________________________


    A collection of clips, Liberal hosts being not nearly critical enough of Obamas mass murder policies in Syria and Libya to push for REAL CHANGE ... but the question is - WHY?

    Bill Maher Gets Owned by Glenn Greenwald

    Bill Maher Gets Owned by Glenn Greenwald Over Benghazi and Interventionism - May 10, 2013 - YouTube

    Michael Moore surely isnt't just a Democrat Party hack like others in the broadcast media, right?

    Re: Michael Moore on the First Episode of the New Countdown (BlogTV Show July 9th, 2011) - YouTube

    Here, Michael Moore says Obama thinks his "heart is in the right place"

    Michael Moore on the First Episode of the New Countdown with Keith Olbermann -- 6/20/11 - YouTube
    __________________________________________________ _____
    "The press is the hired agent of a moneyed system, set up for no other reason than to tell us lies where their interests are concerned." — Henry Adams

  7. #377
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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    image: dumbed down tabloid twits: Bill Maher blames Middle east conflicts on the Koran. Bill Maher and Ann Coulter are part of the Media Circus like Alex Jones, Mike Malloy, Norman Goldman, Randi Rhodes, which intentionally eclipse and delegitimize serious protests, and dissent of destructive U.S. policy with antics, false dialectics, and religion.




    Thom Hartman, Mike Malloy, Norm Goldman, and other shows like Democracy Now, or Ring of Fire, spends dozens of hours on the Keystone pipeline, while tens of thousands of innocent Syrian civillians are being killed by terrorists armed by Obama and Hillary.

    Hello !?!

    You Liberal weenie broadcast hosts, the Syrian people are DYING NOW -

    (not 50 years from now, by a Keystone pipeline NOT EVEN BUILT YET !!!)


    __________________________________________________ __________

    And stop going back to Bush/Cheney war crimes ON YOUR SHOWS, take care of what happens on your OWN PRESIDENTS WATCH ... the guy you voted for!

    Hypocrites!
    __________________________________________________ __________


    Religion with regard to the war in Syria is a propaganda device used by the U.S. government. Mike Malloy also used this religion argument to brush off concerns with Syria and Middle East wars done for oil by Obama.

    They tried to spin "the surge" in Iraq as "sectarian violence" while John Negroponte trained, armed death squads under Dubya.

    The same is the case in Syria. The rebels in Syria are nothing but terrorist mercenary thugs, have no allegiance to Syria or religion, just killers for hire.

    And guess who U.S. special forces trained, armed them?

    You got it. President Obombers.

    The next war to prevent "terror" (AKA endless oil wars) in Syria using Americas 9/11 arch enemies "Al Queda"

    This photo is from the Council on Foreign Relations "Foreign Policy" magazine.



    "Image: Must be seen to believe - screenshot of FP's article literally titled, "Two Cheers for Syrian Islamists." The writer, Gary Gambill, comes from the Middle East Forum which regular features the warmongering rants of Neo-Cons like Daniel Pipes and Islamophobia-propagandist Robert Spencer. With the West now embracing "Islamists" (Al Qaeda), it has now begun selling the terrorists' cause in Russia's Caucasus region"

    by Tony Carlucci

    Land Destroyer: Global Blitzkrieg: West's Terror Battalions Eye Russia Next

    Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links - Telegraph



    Foreign Death Squad Network in Syria Larger Than Stated by West

    Activist Post: Foreign Death Squad Network in Syria Larger Than Stated by West



    Hillary Clinton and Middle East war crimes

    Hillary Clinton and Middle East war crimes - World Socialist Web Site



    More Than Thirty Top U.S. Officials Guilty of War Crimes


    More Than Thirty Top U.S. Officials Guilty of War Crimes | Global Research

    __________________________________________________ __________________________


    A collection of clips, Liberal hosts being not nearly critical enough of Obamas mass murder policies in Syria and Libya to push for REAL CHANGE ... but the question is - WHY?

    Bill Maher Gets Owned by Glenn Greenwald

    Bill Maher Gets Owned by Glenn Greenwald Over Benghazi and Interventionism - May 10, 2013 - YouTube

    Michael Moore surely isnt't just a Democrat Party hack like others in the broadcast media, right?

    Re: Michael Moore on the First Episode of the New Countdown (BlogTV Show July 9th, 2011) - YouTube

    Here, Michael Moore says Obama thinks his "heart is in the right place"

    Michael Moore on the First Episode of the New Countdown with Keith Olbermann -- 6/20/11 - YouTube
    tl;dr

    What's your point?

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  8. #378
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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    The same old Elitist villians

    Senior CFR official: Free Syrian Army needs al-Qaeda support

    "A top strategist at the prestigious U.S. Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is crediting al-Qaeda forces in Syria with the resurgence of the rebellion against President Bashar Al-Assad's regime."The Syrian rebels would be immeasurably weaker today without al-Qaeda in their ranks," writes Ed Husain, a Senior Fellow of Middle East Studies with the CFR, which is considered in political circles to be America's most influential foreign-policy think tank.

    Read more: Senior CFR official: Free Syrian Army needs al-Qaeda support (Includes interview)


    It just goes to show you how uncaring Elites are, who will slay a country of people so they can get some lousy oil and gas pipelines.

    And people like Obama, who started this Syria war, pretend to be HUMAN.

    Prove it, Mr. President. Stop the killing in Syria.




    Sign the Petition to President Barack Obama

    President Barack Obama: Tell us the Truth about Syria. Stop this Violent Proxy War.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/pres...lent-proxy-war
    __________________________________________________ _____
    "The press is the hired agent of a moneyed system, set up for no other reason than to tell us lies where their interests are concerned." — Henry Adams

  9. #379
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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    It was never my argument that the revolution was not motivated by religious fanatics. My argument was that US interventionism put many of the events into motion.
    Yes, it was all the American's fault. That's the generally accepted explanation for all the world's problems, and it has been so since some time around 1890.

  10. #380
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    Re: US will supply military weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    This has turned into a regional conflict---Sunni from Iran and Iraq fighting with the government forces--Shia from Lebanon and other countries fighting with the rebels...We have to send them more than a few weapons or is it too late already?

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