• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

Health care has been an issue for as long as I can remember. Those who don't want reform have always done a good job of demonizing and making sure nothing gets done. As bad as this effort is, it's the first cement forward I can remember. Well see how it plays out.

Opening the market so that all providers of insurance could offer their plans in all areas of the country, and putting the boot on the neck of ambulance chasing parasites that bring an overload of frivolous cases for malpractice designed to soak the insurance company instead of addressing real malpractice all for the sake of enrichment is the problem, and a good place to start. Not this....
 
Opening the market so that all providers of insurance could offer their plans in all areas of the country, and putting the boot on the neck of ambulance chasing parasites that bring an overload of frivolous cases for malpractice designed to soak the insurance company instead of addressing real malpractice all for the sake of enrichment is the problem, and a good place to start. Not this....

Credit cad offers across state lines didn't get us lower interest rates. Companies just flock to whichever state has laws that let them screw you harder.
 
A new 253-page Obamacare rule issued late Friday requires state, federal and local agencies as well as health insurers to swap the protected personal health information of anybody seeking to join the new health care program that will be enforced by the Internal Revenue Service.

Personal health information, or PHI, is highly protected under federal law, but the latest ruling from the Department of Health and Human Services allows agencies to trade the information to verify that Obamacare applicants are getting the minimum amount of health insurance coverage they need from the health "exchanges."

The ruling, explained on pages 72-73 of the book-thick guidance, does not mention any requirement that applicants first OK the release of their PHI. HHS already allows some exchange of PHI without an individual's pre-approval, especially when for a "government program providing public benefits." Officials said the swapping of information is simply meant to help figure the best insurance coverge of Obamacare users.

PHI includes an individual's medical history, test and laboratory results, insurance information and other data.

The new rule said that appropriate privacy laws will be followed.

"The exchange would submit specific identifying information to HHS and HHS would verify applicant information with information from the federal and state agencies or programs that provide eligibility and enrollment information regarding minimum essential coverage. Such agencies or programs may include but are not limited to Veterans Health Administration, TRICARE, and Medicare," said the new rule, which HHS is seeking public comment on.

Obamacare will share personal health info with federal, state agencies | WashingtonExaminer.com

big brother observes, big brother blabs
 
Nonsense, can you show me in the law where any of the providers as the current law is written, states that they must reign in costs? We see wild swings for the same things like that $16 band aid, or a surgical procedure from one hospital to another, but nothing in the ACA says that has to change....

Must? Not there. It's encouraged. But if I accept your argument, then I must conclude you think providers are greedy bastards who really just want to gorge folks. If he reason for the over charging is gone, what other reason would you give for it?
 
Opening the market so that all providers of insurance could offer their plans in all areas of the country, and putting the boot on the neck of ambulance chasing parasites that bring an overload of frivolous cases for malpractice designed to soak the insurance company instead of addressing real malpractice all for the sake of enrichment is the problem, and a good place to start. Not this....

It doesn't work that way. Open it up, the reasons why some are higher will bleed into the others, making all of them higher. Just like with tort reform, many simply mistaken the likely effect. I gave you links on that years ago. Nt sure why we keep revisiting it.
 
Must? Not there.

So then, why would you put forth this premise?

Our ad hoc system has no real control, so the costs, that sixteen dollar bandaid, hiked to cover those who don't pay, is arbitrary in the sense that no one knows if it has to be that much to cover the costs. Once they no longer have to do that, we can see better what healthcare actually costs.

So, you say that the ACA will 'control' costs, because you think that everyone will be forced to carry insurance so that the costs of things like band aid's in hospitals will no longer have to be inflated to cover those without insurance that don't pay, yet when called on that statement you play like you never said anything of the kind, and admit that it is not in the ACA to do that....

It's encouraged.

It is? where?

But if I accept your argument, then I must conclude you think providers are greedy bastards who really just want to gorge folks.

In some cases I guess they very well could be "greedy bastards", but I never said that. I mean there is probably some of that when a surgical procedure in one hospital costs $7000. and down the road 10 mi. the same procedure cost $52,000. You tell me.

But I don't think that this bill does anything to seriously address that problem, and isn't meant to...That isn't the purpose of the law.

If he reason for the over charging is gone, what other reason would you give for it?

I am not a health care professional, even though I have a family member that is, and my daughter is in nursing school now....But I do know that you are making the mistake of "either/or" thinking.
===============================
On opening up markets:

Boo Radley said:
It doesn't work that way.

It doesn't? Tell me how health care is different from any other service that makes it not susceptible to market forces?

Open it up, the reasons why some are higher will bleed into the others, making all of them higher.

This runs contrary to free markets, and what we know to be the truth in how it works from experience in this country...So, I would have to ask that you prove this ridiculous statement.

Just like with tort reform, many simply mistaken the likely effect.

So, more choice, and less legal thievery will not bring down costs? You make no sense.

I gave you links on that years ago. Nt sure why we keep revisiting it.

:lamo I gave you links showing you to be wrong years ago. Not sure why you continue to keep taking this absurd line of thinking.
 
Credit cad offers across state lines didn't get us lower interest rates. Companies just flock to whichever state has laws that let them screw you harder.

That's nonsense...Do the credit card companies force you to retain, and use their product?
 
A two thousand door deductible is nothing compared to how high medical bills can get in catastrophic circumstances.

I don't know how much money you have laying around, but many more people in this country live week, to week, and don't have that kind of money. So, I would say nice of you to be so flip with others circumstances....
 
yesterday:

Democratic Congressman: 'Not Fair' To Subject Congress To Obamacare Just Like Everyone Else - Forbes

john larson, CT, is #4 in house leadership, chair of the caucus

"it's simply not fair," he complains

he should know

april 24: Lawmakers, aides seek Obamacare exemption - POLITICO.com

It is hard to be proud of the CT reps. To be honest, our state does not put up real candidates. For instance, our last senate race. McMahon vs Murphy. Neither one is capable.
 
I don't know how much money you have laying around, but many more people in this country live week, to week, and don't have that kind of money. So, I would say nice of you to be so flip with others circumstances....
Well i am simply not a socialist who wants to see the government cover the insurance deductible for every single person. A 2k deductible isn't bad at all compared to a 50k medical bill. But I guess if you want more socialism, then you think even a 2k deductible is too high. Why not just go single payer?
 
I don't know how much money you have laying around, but many more people in this country live week, to week, and don't have that kind of money. So, I would say nice of you to be so flip with others circumstances....

People are living so tight now that I think most of them are not thinking about 40 years down the line. There is no such thing as savings anymore. I know a lot of people who haven't received a raise in 3 years. They were living hand to mouth then...what is going to change for them now.

I agree, people do not have money laying around.
 
Well i am simply not a socialist who wants to see the government cover the insurance deductible for every single person. A 2k deductible isn't bad at all compared to a 50k medical bill. But I guess if you want more socialism, then you think even a 2k deductible is too high. Why not just go single payer?

Or remove government healthcare all together?
 
Or remove government healthcare all together?

Well there has to be some safety net. The Afoordable Care Act strikes a fairly decent compromise. Certainly the deductible being too high is not an argument against it.
 
People are living so tight now that I think most of them are not thinking about 40 years down the line. There is no such thing as savings anymore. I know a lot of people who haven't received a raise in 3 years. They were living hand to mouth then...what is going to change for them now.

I agree, people do not have money laying around.
So they will go into debt. 2k medical debt is better than 50k medical debt.
 
A two thousand door deductible is nothing compared to how high medical bills can get in catastrophic circumstances.

$2,000 seems pretty cheap if it saves your life. I do believe I'd pay more than that if it was the differance between looking down at the grass or looking up at it!
 
Well i am simply not a socialist who wants to see the government cover the insurance deductible for every single person. A 2k deductible isn't bad at all compared to a 50k medical bill. But I guess if you want more socialism, then you think even a 2k deductible is too high. Why not just go single payer?


No, if you don't have it, then you don't have it. The deductible could be $25 and if you don't have it, it's too high. Look, we both know full well that this sham of a law is not going to last as written anyway, and never was intended to....The intent of it was always a pathway to Universal Health Care, using a Cloward/Piven model of destroying the system through overload. Are there problems with our system as it existed? Of course. Was this law intended to fix them? NO.
 
Well there has to be some safety net. The Afoordable Care Act strikes a fairly decent compromise. Certainly the deductible being too high is not an argument against it.

Compromise? Where was that in any of this?
 
No, if you don't have it, then you don't have it. The deductible could be $25 and if you don't have it, it's too high. Look, we both know full well that this sham of a law is not going to last as written anyway, and never was intended to....The intent of it was always a pathway to Universal Health Care, using a Cloward/Piven model of destroying the system through overload. Are there problems with our system as it existed? Of course. Was this law intended to fix them? NO.
You misunderstand. If you don't have it you go into debt.
 
Compromise? Where was that in any of this?

PACA is a conservative plan. It is a compromise. Stop geting all your news from Glenn Beck. This is not a Cloward Piven conspiracy, it is a center-right healthcare reform plan.
 
You misunderstand. If you don't have it you go into debt.

Wonderful. I can see a day where the predatory lender is right there at the registration desk upon arrival to the hospital....Won't that be wonderful? "Hey Mr. so and so, we are going to save your life, so that you can pay us back forever!" Or better yet, "We aren't going to give you that by-pass Mr. so and so, because you are simply too old."

Wonderful.
 
Wonderful. I can see a day where the predatory lender is right there at the registration desk upon arrival to the hospital....Won't that be wonderful? "Hey Mr. so and so, we are going to save your life, so that you can pay us back forever!" Or better yet, "We aren't going to give you that by-pass Mr. so and so, because you are simply too old."

Wonderful.
You have some very strange, wrong ideas. Typically, the patient is going to go into debt with the hospital.
 
PACA is a conservative plan. It is a compromise. Stop geting all your news from Glenn Beck. This is not a Cloward Piven conspiracy, it is a center-right healthcare reform plan.

Adopting the Center for American Progress line of BS I see....This lie has been debunked over and over since it was first uttered by the likes of Chris Matthews, Nancy Pelosi, and the like....

Is the individual mandate at the heart of "ObamaCare" a conservative idea? Is it constitutional? And was it invented at The Heritage Foundation? In a word, no.


By Kate Patterson, USA TODAY
Stuart Butler


The U.S. Supreme Court will put the middle issue to rest. The answers to the first and last can come from me. After all, I headed Heritage's health work for 30 years. And make no mistake: Heritage and I actively oppose the individual mandate, including in an amicus brief filed in the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals to the Supreme Court.

Nevertheless, the myth persists. ObamaCare "adopts the 'individual mandate' concept from the conservative Heritage Foundation," Jonathan Alter wrote recently in The Washington Post. MSNBC's Chris Matthews makes the same claim, asserting that Republican support of a mandate "has its roots in a proposal by the conservative Heritage Foundation." Former House speaker Nancy Pelosi and others have made similar claims.

The confusion arises from the fact that 20 years ago, I held the view that as a technical matter, some form of requirement to purchase insurance was needed in a near-universal insurance market to avoid massive instability through "adverse selection" (insurers avoiding bad risks and healthy people declining coverage). At that time, President Clinton was proposing a universal health care plan, and Heritage and I devised a viable alternative.

My view was shared at the time by many conservative experts, including American Enterprise Institute (AEI) scholars, as well as most non-conservative analysts. Even libertarian-conservative icon Milton Friedman, in a 1991 Wall Street Journal article, advocated replacing Medicare and Medicaid "with a requirement that every U.S. family unit have a major medical insurance policy."

My idea was hardly new. Heritage did not invent the individual mandate.

But the version of the health insurance mandate Heritage and I supported in the 1990s had three critical features

First, it was not primarily intended to push people to obtain protection for their own good, but to protect others. Like auto damage liability insurance required in most states, our requirement focused on "catastrophic" costs — so hospitals and taxpayers would not have to foot the bill for the expensive illness or accident of someone who did not buy insurance.

Second, we sought to induce people to buy coverage primarily through the carrot of a generous health credit or voucher, financed in part by a fundamental reform of the tax treatment of health coverage, rather than by a stick.

And third, in the legislation we helped craft that ultimately became a preferred alternative to ClintonCare, the "mandate" was actually the loss of certain tax breaks for those not choosing to buy coverage, not a legal requirement.

Don't blame Heritage for ObamaCare mandate

So, the meme is simply not true.
 
Back
Top Bottom