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Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

MaggieD said:
Do you know what that policy would cost today?? (This "average" means absolutely nothing. Healthcare insurance premiums are based on age.) Before signing up for Illinois' subsidized ICHIP program, I paid $850 a month for a $5,200 deductible policy. The rate you've listed here looks cheap. (Illinois' subsidized ICHIP program premium is $670 a month for the same deductible.)

Combine what I consider to be reasonable rates with the fact that people who've heretofore been unable tobuy health insurance because of pre-existing conditions, and I don't think these rates are bad at all.

Without a comparison to "before," your "after" is meaningless.
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The internet is your friend.

$2000 deductible, 0% Coinsurance, in Los Angeles for a single female... $174.00/month

$1750 deductible, 0% Coinsurance, in Chicago for a single female... $216.00/month


There is your "before". We now see the "after" will cost more.
 
roughdraft274 said:
It's insurance. You can't just look at a single year and say "see you're over paying!" Because then you overlook that one year where you needed emergency surgery with a short stay in the ICU, where you shelled out a few thousand but didn't have to pay the other hundred thousand dollars of your bill. Do you really not understand that or are you being intentionally thick headed?
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this is what you do. you pay the fine/tax for not having insurance and if you go to the doctor for a cold you pay out of pocket and when you do get an illness that requires expensive treatment then you buy insurance because it will be a preexisting condition so your covered they cant deny you . it is what i will be doing. My doctor already told me he will give me a discount if i pay up front cash for a visit. a lot of doctors will be doing the same. as a matter of fact many doctors are going to not except any insurance at all
Obama care will bankrupt insurance companies
 
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jmotivator said:
No, I'm not. Democrats forgot the purpose of health insurance when they designed a system that is more expensive to participate in than it is to not participate. The penalties for not participating in the exchanges is less than the premiums+copay. If someone get's catastrophically ill and was not on insurance when they got sick then they can simply apply for insurance at the exchange and they have to be accepted.

So why participate?
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That depends, since there will be a flat fee + 1% (increasing annually) of income surcharge......plus whatever medical costs you do have.

I think the costs for waiting, not enrolling during the open enrollment, will be greater too.
 
jmotivator said:
The internet is your friend.

$2000 deductible, 0% Coinsurance, in Los Angeles for a single female... $174.00/month

$1750 deductible, 0% Coinsurance, in Chicago for a single female... $216.00/month


There is your "before". We now see the "after" will cost more.
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That link doesn't show me what you posted. But I take your word for it. What age did you use? And, yes, we should look at it after. The OP is useless as a comparison tool.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
The world does not revolve around me, I consider how Obama care will effect other people and the country in general. As I said I am going to make out like a bandit.
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Huh...it is going to lower your costs.......and will expand enrollment....it is already starting to effect cost curves......it has "caddy" plans....!?!
 
Deuce said:
Just what in the **** do you think your insurance does now?
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Not necessarily agreeing with sawyer, but I interpreted that to mean Obamacare increases costs without major illness, and is only effective when there is major illness. In other words, it's worse in most cases, and in rare cases it's break-even...which would be net-bad if the numbers were really categorized that way. I see your interpretation too, I hope he didn't mean that!...
 
Mach said:
Not necessarily agreeing with sawyer, but I interpreted that to mean Obamacare increases costs without major illness
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You mean...insurance has a cost as opposed....to not purchasing insurance.

This is the same error, you are completely ignoring WHAT INSURANCE IS FOR.
 
Obama worshipers desperately trying to spin and propagandize this turd of a bill that was rammed down our throats

Par for the course
 
Gimmesometruth said:
That depends, since there will be a flat fee + 1% (increasing annually) of income surcharge......plus whatever medical costs you do have.

I think the costs for waiting, not enrolling during the open enrollment, will be greater too.
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At full implementation it will be $695 annually +2.5% of income.

So insurance cost is $3,852 out of pocket for a bronze plan in California.

So, what income to do have to make for the penalty to break even in a given year?

($3852 - $695) * 40 = $126,280.00

So it is cheaper for 85% of all earners in the country to not get insurance and just apply for it if they do get sick.
 
jmotivator said:
At full implementation it will be $695 annually +2.5% of income.

So insurance cost is $3,852 out of pocket for a bronze plan in California.

So, what income to do have to make for the penalty to break even in a given year?

($3852 - $695) * 40 = $126,280.00

So it is cheaper for 85% of all earners in the country to not get insurance and just apply for it if they do get sick.
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Have you included the subsidy for families making less that ~$90k?

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/14/news/economy/obamacare-premiums/index.html?iid=EL

Here's what could affect your coverage cost. This breakdown is only for those who buy plans on the individual market through the exchanges, and doesn't apply to those with employer-sponsored plans.
Income: One of the top factors determining how much you'll pay next year is your income. That's because subsidies are available to those with incomes of up to 400% of the poverty line -- roughly $45,000 for an individual or $92,000 for a family of four. Some 57% of enrollees will receive subsidies, and those subsidies will cover nearly two-thirds of the premium, on average, according to the Congressional Budget Office's estimates.​


http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/23/news/economy/california-obamacare-premiums/index.html?iid=EL
The least expensive silver plan for a 21-year-old could cost $216 a month, but those earning only 150% of the poverty line (or $17,235 annually) may pay only $44 after receiving federal subsidies. A 40-year-old may pay $276 a month, or $40 after the subsidies.​
 
MaggieD said:
That link doesn't show me what you posted. But I take your word for it. What age did you use? And, yes, we should look at it after. The OP is useless as a comparison tool.
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I used age 28, I didn't have the average age of their report. But the premium will vary with age so the older you are the more this will cost.
 
jmotivator said:
At full implementation it will be $695 annually +2.5% of income.

So insurance cost is $3,852 out of pocket for a bronze plan in California.

So, what income to do have to make for the penalty to break even in a given year?

($3852 - $695) * 40 = $126,280.00

So it is cheaper for 85% of all earners in the country to not get insurance and just apply for it if they do get sick.
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Hold on there, you are ignoring fed subsidies, and what is the 40 multiplyer?
 
jmotivator said:
The internet is your friend.

$2000 deductible, 0% Coinsurance, in Los Angeles for a single female... $174.00/month

$1750 deductible, 0% Coinsurance, in Chicago for a single female... $216.00/month


There is your "before". We now see the "after" will cost more.
Click to expand...

Did you look at the plan details for these cheap plans?....those cheap rates mean nothing once you get into plan details.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Interesting, I thought it was Obama care supporters bashing Caddy plans saying it drove up health care cost for everyone else. The point is obamacare has no Caddy plan that some people want or even need.
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Actually it was McCain supporters attacking the 'Cadillac' plans of the unions driving up costs both for companies that employ Unions and the healthcare system. What I see 'driving' up costs is the medical profession doesn't have to 'compete' with advertised pricing. Someone posted the huge price differential between hospitals that were yelling distance of each other. In the more rural locations the medical facility has a virtual lock on business unless the patient wants to travel 100 miles to OKC or 150 to Dallas.

What we need isn't for the Right Wing to whine but for the light to shine on medical pricing and practices.

Now since you are drifting the 'point' yet again, please tell me what 'Caddillac' plan some folks 'need'? Now the way I heard it is I can keep my existing plan OR opt for a new one.

Just how is your insurance of worth when you are not using it?
 
notquiteright said:
Actually it was McCain supporters attacking the 'Cadillac' plans of the unions driving up costs both for companies that employ Unions and the healthcare system. What I see 'driving' up costs is the medical profession doesn't have to 'compete' with advertised pricing. Someone posted the huge price differential between hospitals that were yelling distance of each other. In the more rural locations the medical facility has a virtual lock on business unless the patient wants to travel 100 miles to OKC or 150 to Dallas.

What we need isn't for the Right Wing to whine but for the light to shine on medical pricing and practices.

Now since you are drifting the 'point' yet again, please tell me what 'Caddillac' plan some folks 'need'? Now the way I heard it is I can keep my existing plan OR opt for a new one.

Just how is your insurance of worth when you are not using it?
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If you have not yet realized that is complete horse s*** you are not worth my time or effort. Do some research and get back to me when you are better informed, SHEEESH! :roll:
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Interesting, I thought it was Obama care supporters bashing Caddy plans saying it drove up health care cost for everyone else. The point is obamacare has no Caddy plan that some people want or even need.
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Part of the problem with Cadillac plans are that the really expensive plans are just in lieu of salary in order to escape taxes for both the company and employee. There's definitely a reason to offer tax incentives for companies to subsidize health insurance but some plans go a bit to far. Ultimately you'll just end up seeing companies with better benefits moving extra money into direct pay to customers. I think the healthcare subsidy is estimated to be around 800 billion or so dollars a year (in total).
 
sawyerloggingon said:
If you have not yet realized that is complete horse s*** you are not worth my time or effort. Do some research and get back to me when you are better informed, SHEEESH! :roll:
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Sooooo basically your out on a limb and rather than tell me what a Cadillac plan is, and your the one who keeps using the term, and who NEEDS one, you throw a temper tantrum and go home?

Your the one making no sense with comments like the insurance is worthless and then run around pointing at 'cadillac' plans or some such.

Perhaps you should become informed from some other place than where you are now. I just changed plans to the current one I have, so I have done some research and I don't have a 'Cadillac' plan.

it might be best you just stay out of the conversations, you seem to wander a bit until you get mad and storm off... :2wave:
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Hold on there, you are ignoring fed subsidies, and what is the 40 multiplyer?
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The 40 multiplier is because the income penalty is 1/40th of your income. For the penalty to equal insurance cost you would need to make 40 times the variable penalty.

As far as government subsidies go, it doesn't actually change the cost. The problem is that the penalty is, in it's own way, subsidized.

In the first year the baseline penalty will be $95.00 +1%, or about $8.00/month +1%. As shown in the subsidy post a few posts back, someone making 150% of poverty level who buys insurance would pay $44/month after subsidies.

But since they make $17,235, their total penalty would be $95+1% or $267.00 in penalties. That brings the penalty to $22.70/month.... about half the cost of buying insurance.

It really doesn't matter what the penalty will be in 5 years since the design of this plan will kill the insurance companies well before the penalty becomes actually prohibitive.
 
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straykatz said:
Did you look at the plan details for these cheap plans?....those cheap rates mean nothing once you get into plan details.
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Go look it up yourself. The office visit of the Chicago plan was 100% coverage after deductible, for example. It was certainly no worse that the plan posted in the OP.
 
But also worth noting, in the first year the break even income is much higher.

Final penalty equation (again):
($3852 - $695) * 40 = $126,280.00

First Year Equation

($3852 - $95) * 100 = $375,700.00

So in the FIRST year of Obamacare it will be cheaper for 98% of all Americans to just pay the penalty rather than sign up for insurance unless and until they become seriously ill, at which point they can sign up for whatever insurers are left after the mass exodus.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Have you included the subsidy for families making less that ~$90k?

Who will pay higher premiums under Obamacare? Young men - May. 14, 2013

Here's what could affect your coverage cost. This breakdown is only for those who buy plans on the individual market through the exchanges, and doesn't apply to those with employer-sponsored plans.
Income: One of the top factors determining how much you'll pay next year is your income. That's because subsidies are available to those with incomes of up to 400% of the poverty line -- roughly $45,000 for an individual or $92,000 for a family of four. Some 57% of enrollees will receive subsidies, and those subsidies will cover nearly two-thirds of the premium, on average, according to the Congressional Budget Office's estimates.​


Obamacare premiums in California lower than predicted - May. 23, 2013
The least expensive silver plan for a 21-year-old could cost $216 a month, but those earning only 150% of the poverty line (or $17,235 annually) may pay only $44 after receiving federal subsidies. A 40-year-old may pay $276 a month, or $40 after the subsidies.​
Click to expand...


As I pointed out in another post on the same subject, the subsidies, by your own numbers, will not bend the cost curve in favor of getting insurance.
 
iliveonramen said:
Part of the problem with Cadillac plans are that the really expensive plans are just in lieu of salary in order to escape taxes for both the company and employee. There's definitely a reason to offer tax incentives for companies to subsidize health insurance but some plans go a bit to far. Ultimately you'll just end up seeing companies with better benefits moving extra money into direct pay to customers. I think the healthcare subsidy is estimated to be around 800 billion or so dollars a year (in total).
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Fair points.
 
jmotivator said:
...the subsidies...will not bend the cost curve in favor of getting insurance.
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What does that mean exactly?
Istm, that ~$40/mo * 12mo => ~$500/yr, and that $500/yr < $3852

So, it seems that paying ~$500 / yr and getting insurance is a better deal than paying ~$3000 / yr and not getting insurance.

What am I missing?

jmotivator said:
...by your own numbers...
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LOL
 
Lets take a step back, the whole purpose of the ACA is to create a program for those who want to purchase but cannot. People who are determined not to purchase still can do this, but with a cost.
jmotivator said:
It really doesn't matter what the penalty will be in 5 years since the design of this plan will kill the insurance companies well before the penalty becomes actually prohibitive.
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Well now you are just arguing really irrational points.....which is kind of where I thought this would go.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Lets take a step back, the whole purpose of the ACA is to create a program for those who want to purchase but cannot. People who are determined not to purchase still can do this, but with a cost. Well now you are just arguing really irrational points.....which is kind of where I thought this would go.
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You're lying

The purpose of the ACA is to eventually create a single payer system and force Americans to purchase health insurance whether they want to or not

This crap sandwich was sold on lies and people like you continue to try and defend it with lies and obfuscation
 
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