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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I can have an opinion, sure I can....
    Like I said, mind reading.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nope, you don't get to declare what is or isn't a fact....Everyone has the same "access" to health care in this country, what we are talking about is method of payment for service.



    I don't rely on "outliners", I use bold when making important points... Anyway, you have two logical fallacies in two sentences here....you go man....
    No, facts are facts. O one declares them. They just are.

    And no, not everyone has proper access. You should investigate more.


    Key findings
    Data from the National Health Interview Survey: 2008
    Almost 13 million young adults aged 2029 years did not have health insurance coverage in 2008 (30%).
    Young men aged 2029 years were 36% more likely than young women of that age to be uninsured.
    Young adults aged 2029 years without insurance were less likely to have a usual source of medical care (44%) than were those with private insurance (80%) or Medicaid (84%).
    Young adults aged 2029 years without insurance were four times as likely (21%) as those with private insurance (5%) and two times as likely as those with Medicaid (9%) to have unmet medical need.
    Uninsured young women aged 2029 (33%) were almost twice as likely as uninsured young men of that age (18%) to have had unmet prescription medication need in the past 12 months.

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db29.PDF


    Tens of millions of adults under age 65 both those with insurance and those without saw their access to health care worsen dramatically over the past decade, according to a study abstract released Monday.

    The findings suggest that more privately insured Americans are delaying treatment because of rising out-of-pocket costs, while safety-net programs for the poor and uninsured are failing to keep up with demand for care, say Urban Institute researchers who wrote the report.

    Access to health care in U.S. worsens, study finds : Lifestyles

    About 44 million people in this country have no health insurance, and another 38 million have inadequate health insurance. This means that nearly one-third of Americans face each day without the security of knowing that, if and when they need it, medical care is available to them and their families.

    Having no health insurance also often means that people will postpone necessary care and forego preventive care - such as childhood immunizations and routine check-ups-completely. Because the uninsured usually have no regular doctor and limited access to prescription medications, they are more likely to be hospitalized for health conditions that could have been avoided.

    Delaying care for fear of medical bills is a downward spiral that leads to ultimately higher health care costs for all of us. More than one third of uninsured adults reported they have problems paying their bills, which helps explain why many of the uninsured don't seek out the care they need until the last minute. But when an uninsured person is in crisis and cannot pay, that burden falls upon the insured population, the hospitals, the doctors and the government. And these billions of dollars of "uncompensated care" drive up health insurance premiums for everyone.

    PBS- Healthcare Crisis: The Uninsured

    And you really should review logical fallacies. You don't know them very well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, facts are facts. O one declares them. They just are.

    And no, not everyone has proper access. You should investigate more.


    Key findings
    Data from the National Health Interview Survey: 2008
    • Almost 13 million young adults aged 20–29 years did not have health insurance coverage in 2008 (30%).
    • Young men aged 20–29 years were 36% more likely than young women of that age to be uninsured.
    • Young adults aged 20–29 years without insurance were less likely to have a usual source of medical care (44%) than were those with private insurance (80%) or Medicaid (84%).
    • Young adults aged 20–29 years without insurance were four times as likely (21%) as those with private insurance (5%) and two times as likely as those with Medicaid (9%) to have unmet medical need.
    • Uninsured young women aged 20–29 (33%) were almost twice as likely as uninsured young men of that age (18%) to have had unmet prescription medication need in the past 12 months.

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db29.PDF


    Tens of millions of adults under age 65 — both those with insurance and those without — saw their access to health care worsen dramatically over the past decade, according to a study abstract released Monday.

    The findings suggest that more privately insured Americans are delaying treatment because of rising out-of-pocket costs, while safety-net programs for the poor and uninsured are failing to keep up with demand for care, say Urban Institute researchers who wrote the report.

    Access to health care in U.S. worsens, study finds : Lifestyles

    About 44 million people in this country have no health insurance, and another 38 million have inadequate health insurance. This means that nearly one-third of Americans face each day without the security of knowing that, if and when they need it, medical care is available to them and their families.

    Having no health insurance also often means that people will postpone necessary care and forego preventive care - such as childhood immunizations and routine check-ups-completely. Because the uninsured usually have no regular doctor and limited access to prescription medications, they are more likely to be hospitalized for health conditions that could have been avoided.

    Delaying care for fear of medical bills is a downward spiral that leads to ultimately higher health care costs for all of us. More than one third of uninsured adults reported they have problems paying their bills, which helps explain why many of the uninsured don't seek out the care they need until the last minute. But when an uninsured person is in crisis and cannot pay, that burden falls upon the insured population, the hospitals, the doctors and the government. And these billions of dollars of "uncompensated care" drive up health insurance premiums for everyone.

    PBS- Healthcare Crisis: The Uninsured

    And you really should review logical fallacies. You don't know them very well.
    ok smart guy, if someone goes into a doctors office with no insurance, but has the money in his pocket to pay for the service of an office visit, does he get turned away?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    ok smart guy, if someone goes into a doctors office with no insurance, but has the money in his pocket to pay for the service of an office visit, does he get turned away?
    Nope. But if he has no insurance, and no money he does. So, stay within the confines of what I linked. No one claims those who can afford it gets turned away.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope. But if he has no insurance, and no money he does.
    That's just not true...In most cities there are free clinics, (although not enough I admit), and if the situation is bad enough to warrant emergency treatment then by law he can not be turned away from a hospital. Then, for even the those that don't have the money for say "top notch doctor's offices" there are emergent care practices like "doctor's care" and others that you can visit for an office visit costing $30.

    So, stay within the confines of what I linked.
    No, because what you link sets up a false picture of what is available in this country. It leaves much out for the purposes of furthering a narrative in favor of your desire. That is just not an honest debate.

    No one claims those who can afford it gets turned away.
    By using a blanket term "access" you are at best giving a misleading term. Access, and affordability are two different things. I tell you a little story. My daughter just got out of the hospital yesterday. She was in there for 10 days. Now, although she does work, she didn't need any money up front, and the insurance she is covered under, is still probably going to leave her with bills that are in the thousands, that she doesn't have. But, she will be able to work with the financial dept. and set up payments of some sort. Either way, she received the treatment she needed even though she didn't have the money to pay up front, so her access was just fine.

    And I have news for you Joe, even if she didn't have the insurance coverage she did, she still would have been admitted, and treated. The bill would have been higher, and other avenues would have been worked out with the hospitals, doctors, and other services in terms of payment, but she still would have been treated. So, if you want to shift the argument to cost, we will probably find more agreement, but to use the disingenuous term access, I am going to say you are just plain wrong, or dishonest. Either way, we know it to be false.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's just not true...In most cities there are free clinics, (although not enough I admit), and if the situation is bad enough to warrant emergency treatment then by law he can not be turned away from a hospital. Then, for even the those that don't have the money for say "top notch doctor's offices" there are emergent care practices like "doctor's care" and others that you can visit for an office visit costing $30.



    No, because what you link sets up a false picture of what is available in this country. It leaves much out for the purposes of furthering a narrative in favor of your desire. That is just not an honest debate.



    By using a blanket term "access" you are at best giving a misleading term. Access, and affordability are two different things. I tell you a little story. My daughter just got out of the hospital yesterday. She was in there for 10 days. Now, although she does work, she didn't need any money up front, and the insurance she is covered under, is still probably going to leave her with bills that are in the thousands, that she doesn't have. But, she will be able to work with the financial dept. and set up payments of some sort. Either way, she received the treatment she needed even though she didn't have the money to pay up front, so her access was just fine.

    And I have news for you Joe, even if she didn't have the insurance coverage she did, she still would have been admitted, and treated. The bill would have been higher, and other avenues would have been worked out with the hospitals, doctors, and other services in terms of payment, but she still would have been treated. So, if you want to shift the argument to cost, we will probably find more agreement, but to use the disingenuous term access, I am going to say you are just plain wrong, or dishonest. Either way, we know it to be false.
    Nothing's free. And have you been to a "free" clinic? Again, I gave you links with the numbers.

    A no, you not liking the view of the country doesn't make it false. The view presented by the links is quite accurate. I know this from experience, but unlike the fellow you won't question when he didn't back up his assertions, I've backed mine up.

    And no, if you can't afford something, you don't have access to it. You using one of tactics some think is clever. It's not. What you can't afford, you can't have. What you can't afford, you are denied access to.

    And no, hospitals only have to treat emergencies. And charging someone more, when they can't afford less, is largely stupid. I've linked numbers. I can even link examples if you want. Including international medical teams coming to help Americans who can't get care. So, no, the facts are against you on this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Truth is they do an amazing job.
    Is that why the fund is going broke, because they do an amazing job?
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    The purpose of the health care act is not to make health care any cheaper for anyone...it's an attempt to make 30 hours the new full time work week. This way, companies have more workers working fewer hours. Which equals lower unemployment numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Looks pretty affordable to me.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    Is that why the fund is going broke, because they do an amazing job?
    yes, any thing that does more than intended, that takes on those most in need, will have some trouble with funding. This is not shocking, especially without solid planning and support from all concerned. it would actually do even better if we merely adopted one system, not ten, and handled this like people trying to solve the problem.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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