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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not exactly sure what you're talking about. But we agree it isn't UHC. If we were serious, we'd have a honest discussion concerning reforming to UHC. Likely a two tiered single payer system.
    How about this single payer system, each person pays for what they use?
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I neither inferred, nor implied anything. That is your problem, injecting into what I write what you want to see.
    Says the pot to the kettle. You said quite clearly what they were really trying to do. Without reading minds, something that inclusive, can't be claimed. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    How about this single payer system, each person pays for what they use?
    You can do that, but you have to be willing to turn people away and live with the consequences. So far, we've been unwilling to do that. Absent that, UHC is the better option.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You can do that, but you have to be willing to turn people away and live with the consequences. So far, we've been unwilling to do that. Absent that, UHC is the better option.
    What makes it better? Paying more for the same thing doesn't sound better to me.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    What makes it better? Paying more for the same thing doesn't sound better to me.
    You don't pay more. Those systems nearly all pay less than we do.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You don't pay more. Those systems nearly all pay less than we do.
    Sure we will. What would make you think we would pay less, the fact that it's a big government program?
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    What makes it better? Paying more for the same thing doesn't sound better to me.
    Some support:

    The U.S. has, by far, the highest total expenditure on health care per capita. America spends approximately $2,600 more per person annually than Norway, the second-highest spender. Only 47.7 percent of this amount is public expenditure -- the third-smallest percentage among developed countries. However, the actual amount of public spending, $3,795, is among the highest. The U.S. also spends the largest amount on pharmaceuticals and other medical nondurables. The country has fairly low rates of doctors and hospital beds relative to its population. It also has the eighth-lowest life expectancy, at 78.2 years.

    Countries that spend the most on health care - NBC News.com

    Pearson: France and Japan demonstrate that it is possible to have cost-containment at the same time as paying physicians using similar tools to those used in the U.S. There are three key things that stand out when you compare these countries to the U.S.:

    They use a common fee schedule so that hospitals, doctors and health services are paid similar rates for most of the patients they see. In the U.S., how much a health care service gets paid depends on the kind of insurance a patient has. This means that health care services can choose patients who have an insurance policy that pays them more generously than other patients who have lower-paying insurers, such as Medicaid.

    They are flexible in responding if they think certain costs are exceeding what they budgeted for. In Japan, if spending in a specific area seems to be growing faster than projected, they lower fees for that area. Similarly, in France an organization called CNMATS closely monitors spending across all kinds of services and if they see a particular area is growing faster than they expected (or deem it in the public interest), they can intervene by lowering the price for that service. These countries also supplement lowering fees with other tools. For example, they monitor how many generic drugs a physician is prescribing and can send someone from the insurance fund to visit physicians' offices to encourage them to use cheaper generic drugs where appropriate. In comparison, U.S. payment rates are much less flexible. They are often statutory and Medicare cannot change the rates without approval by Congress. This makes the system very inflexible for cost containment.

    There are few methods for controlling rising costs in private insurance in the U.S. In running their business, private health insurers continually face a choice between asking health care providers to contain their costs or passing on higher costs to patients in higher premiums. Many of them find it hard to do the former.

    Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries | PBS NewsHour

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    Sure we will. What would make you think we would pay less, the fact that it's a big government program?
    Because all the rest do. As the country that spends the most, we could hardly do worse.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Says the pot to the kettle. You said quite clearly what they were really trying to do. Without reading minds, something that inclusive, can't be claimed. Sorry.
    No, you're just trying to be irritating in your assertions. In any case instead of reading into what I am saying, you should just stick to what I say and address that, not what you think I am saying.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Because all the rest do. As the country that spends the most, we could hardly do worse.
    Oh you under-estimate our politicians. We could certainly, and most likely will, do worse.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

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