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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by vash1012 View Post
    As someone who works in healthcare, I will say there is good and bad in the Affordable Healthcare Act. If you wanted to make the absolute minimum amount of changes to our healthcare system and get everyone access to insurance (note I did not say healthcare, I said insurance), then I suppose it is not the worst thing in the world. It does very, very little to address overall cost issues. It will likely make insurance for healthy people more expensive since it caps the cost of high risk patients' insurance. It caps profit/overhead margins for insurance companies which I think is a shortsighted idea. It sounds nice that they have to spend 80% on healthcare costs, but I think this'll be an incentive for them to spend more money so they can have larger nominal profits rather than keeping costs down. The healthcare exchanges are a good idea, but they should have just made a national system instead of allowing states to do their own thing. This'll create confusion. More confusion is a bad thing in an already confusing industry. Most of all, the main problems with our healthcare system are not addressed. That being we tie our health insurance to employment and that the administrative costs of our healthcare systems are far too high largely BECAUSE of the fact that we have 1000 insurance plans and companies whose rules we have to know and follow in addition to The Joint Commission, CMMC, DHEC, and the other regulatory bodies we have to contend with.

    I think, if we are going to stay with the private insurance model, we should be incentivising companies to take what they are spending on healthcare costs and just give it back to their employees so they can get health insurance on their own. With more people in the health insurance market and companies competing to keep prices down, I think we would have better outcomes than people being tied to their employers plan which may or may not work for them. This also eliminates the need for people to worry about being left without health insurance or sudden expenses when they lose their job. They have a fixed expense they can anticipate and save for. Combine this with Medicaid for low income people, a progressively scaling subsidy for lowish income people, and the ubiquitous use of health care savings accounts that are tax advantaged and don't have to be spent in fiscal year, and I think we would have a decent system in place for insuring ACCESS adequately. Cost issues is another issue entirely.

    A single payer healthcare system I think is ultimately likely outcome. If it was a perfect world, I would like to see a UHC system that had a progressively scaled deductible down to a very small or no deductible for low income patients. Co pays maybe too could scale progessively after the deductible is met and there would be a yearly maximum expenditure. Keep the tax advantaged HSAs around. This would help eliminate a lot of the unnecessary administrative costs of billing hundreds of different insurance plans, not being able to predict healthcare costs in advance to give patients accurate quotes, and unpredictability in income for the hospital itself. I think one of the reasons for cost increases in healthcare is a lack of transparency in billing due to it being completely unpredictable. How many times have you gone to a dentist or doctor and paid your copay only to receive another bill in 2 months for what the insurance didn't pay? A cost sharing component is necessary to curb abuse of healthcare resources and make people more inclined to look for competitive pricing. Cost sharing has increased dramatically over the last 4 years and it has directly lead to a slowdown in the growth of healthcare costs. Oh and the UHC would be completely paid for through a payroll tax and not run 30% budget deficits every year
    Our health care system is a mess IMO and also IMO obamacare makes it worse not better. Like I said it's just unfortunate we can't have an honest debate on this subject, on what we have now VS single payer. Man banded together in tribes for a lot of reasons but one of those reasons was so if you got sick or injured the tribe would take care of you and I don't think things should be that much different now. As usual the devil is in the details though.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Obamacare is not a centralized healthcare system, it is a hodge podge cobbled together mandatory mess. I think the ultimate goal is single payer and that is what the dem's should have been honest about and proposed. I am open to the idea but we needed an honest debate on how much it would cost and how it would be financed as in which taxes go up and by how much. What we have now is gov bureaucracy at its worst.

    You did see the part were I said we don't have that? Just checking as your response sounds like you didn't.

    Certainly if we were serious about meaningful reform, a single payer system would be part of the plan. No doubt. if we were serious that is.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You did see the part were I said we don't have that? Just checking as your response sounds like you didn't.

    Certainly if we were serious about meaningful reform, a single payer system would be part of the plan. No doubt. if we were serious that is.
    And it would have failed. You know that.
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And it would have failed. You know that.
    Perhaps. Misinformation does rule all too often. But it is what a serious person would be talking about.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Perhaps. Misinformation does rule all too often. But it is what a serious person would be talking about.
    I don't give two hoots what you think is what a "serious person" would think, or talk about, or what...The fact here is that what was put together behind closed doors by progressive groups like Centers for American Progress, and Van Jones' groups, is a freakin' disaster. Even those that touted it like Max Baucus says so...So you can try to say that every one opposing your warped view is either lying, or misrepresenting, or what ever dude, it is going to be horrible, and what you and your group has done to this country in the past 6 years is just further proof that your ilk should NEVER be allowed to gain power...You don't know how to handle it.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't give two hoots what you think is what a "serious person" would think, or talk about, or what...The fact here is that what was put together behind closed doors by progressive groups like Centers for American Progress, and Van Jones' groups, is a freakin' disaster. Even those that touted it like Max Baucus says so...So you can try to say that every one opposing your warped view is either lying, or misrepresenting, or what ever dude, it is going to be horrible, and what you and your group has done to this country in the past 6 years is just further proof that your ilk should NEVER be allowed to gain power...You don't know how to handle it.
    If you don't care, don't respond to it.

    And you read too much nonsense. The worse part of the back-room efforts were with the insurance companies. Swallowing Beckish propaganda doesn't make anyone knowledgable. In fact, it's that. Misinformation I mentioned. So, try speaking to actual problems and not silliness that is inaccurate.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you don't care, don't respond to it.

    And you read too much nonsense. The worse part of the back-room efforts were with the insurance companies. Swallowing Beckish propaganda doesn't make anyone knowledgable. In fact, it's that. Misinformation I mentioned. So, try speaking to actual problems and not silliness that is inaccurate.
    Uh huh...."misinformation", "inaccruate".....mmmmmmmmmm k....

    WASHINGTON -- A senior Democratic senator who helped write President Barack Obama's health care law stunned administration officials Wednesday, saying openly he thinks it's headed for a "train wreck."

    "I just see a huge train wreck coming down," Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., told Obama's health care chief during a routine budget hearing that suddenly turned tense.

    Baucus is the first top Democrat to publicly voice fears about the rollout of the new health care law, designed to bring coverage to some 30 million uninsured Americans through a mix of government programs and tax credits for private insurance that start next year.

    Max Baucus Says He Fears Obamacare Is Headed For 'Huge Train Wreck'
    And notice, it isn't from Glenn Beck either....heh, heh....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Uh huh...."misinformation", "inaccruate".....mmmmmmmmmm k....



    And notice, it isn't from Glenn Beck either....heh, heh....
    You accepting the word if someone ducking responsibility instead of thinking critically is what is Beckish. See beyond your bias.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You accepting the word if someone ducking responsibility instead of thinking critically is what is Beckish. See beyond your bias.

    You're too much.... Pretty lame Joe.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You're too much.... Pretty lame Joe.
    I guess the truth is lame then.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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