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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

  1. #391
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    If that's the case, then you should be mad at anyone then you should be mad at your legislature. All the democrats in Congress or Obama can do is offer it. If Texas wants to remain the state with the most uninsured then that's their choice.

    I wish you the best of health for the rest of your life, but if you do ever get sick and need costly services, or ever have uninsured friends that need costly services, I hope you keep in mind who the people were that turned it down and don't just blame democrats.

    And again, what's your solution? Let people die? Deny them emergency care? If your a true libertarian then that's your only answer correct?
    We all need food, clothing and shelter yet are expected to provide those, even more essential, things for both ourselves and for our dependents. The "answer" is not to simply say that any non-diabled adult (U.S. citizen?) that does not earn/produce enough to sustain their own needs and those of their dependents is now "entitled" to their "fair share" of that earned/produced by others.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    We all need food, clothing and shelter yet are expected to provide those, even more essential, things for both ourselves and for our dependents. The "answer" is not to simply say that any non-diabled adult (U.S. citizen?) that does not earn/produce enough to sustain their own needs and those of their dependents is now "entitled" to their "fair share" of that earned/produced by others.
    That sounds like a very long winded way of saying "let them die". If that's your position the least you could do is own up to it. I have a friend with no insurance and low income that just had an aneurysm (he was one of those young and healthy people that Republicans and conservatives are always saying really don't need insurance). They managed to rush him to the hospital, ive him emergency surgery, monitor him in the ICU and saved his life. Total cost around 300,000 dollars. He'll never be able to pay that back. But I'm glad you have such a simple solution. Should have just let him die. And you have the gall to criticize Obamacare, lol. It's not perfect by any means, but it's miles ahead of your solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  3. #393
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    That sounds like a very long winded way of saying "let them die". If that's your position the least you could do is own up to it. I have a friend with no insurance and low income that just had an aneurysm (he was one of those young and healthy people that Republicans and conservatives are always saying really don't need insurance). They managed to rush him to the hospital, ive him emergency surgery, monitor him in the ICU and saved his life. Total cost around 300,000 dollars. He'll never be able to pay that back. But I'm glad you have such a simple solution. Should have just let him die. And you have the gall to criticize Obamacare, lol. It's not perfect by any means, but it's miles ahead of your solution.
    OK Skippy, but if that same "young friend" had paid $600 to $1,000/year for their $5,000/year medical insurance policy (with the balance being paid by other taxpayers) then the situation would largely be the same. Note that he did not die, got his needed medical care and will possibly suffer a credit rating hit (only if the treatment facility sells that debt to a collection agency). I am not calling for no more writing off of charity care, or mandating that actual life saving care be denied, that is not going to happen no matter how many get insured and you know it.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #394
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK Skippy, but if that same "young friend" had paid $600 to $1,000/year for their $5,000/year medical insurance policy (with the balance being paid by other taxpayers) then the situation would largely be the same. Note that he did not die, got his needed medical care and will possibly suffer a credit rating hit (only if the treatment facility sells that debt to a collection agency). I am not calling for no more writing off of charity care, or mandating that actual life saving care be denied, that is not going to happen no matter how many get insured and you know it.
    1. It wouldn't largely be the same. If he had health insurance maybe he would have actually gone to the doctor for his headaches and dizziness that he had for a week leading up to the aneurysm. They could have then told him his blood pressure was through the roof and get that fixed for a fraction of the cost of the surgery and hospital stay.

    2. Why aren't you calling for hospitals to be able to deny emergency medical care? Are you not a libertarian? It seems as though your solution to the problem is to stick our thumbs up our asses alittle bit more. Skippy, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  5. #395
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    1. It wouldn't largely be the same. If he had health insurance maybe he would have actually gone to the doctor for his headaches and dizziness that he had for a week leading up to the aneurysm. They could have then told him his blood pressure was through the roof and get that fixed for a fraction of the cost of the surgery and hospital stay.

    2. Why aren't you calling for hospitals to be able to deny emergency medical care? Are you not a libertarian? It seems as though your solution to the problem is to stick our thumbs up our asses alittle bit more. Skippy, lol.
    Are you implying that the annual cost of medical care insurance is less than that for a single doctor visit? I pay cash for my medical treatment (and have no insurance) and must go once per month for blood work, pay for my prescription medication and see the doctor every three months.

    If you think that medical care costs will go down as the percentage of insured go up then simply look at MA; this did not occur under RomneyCare.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac...eform#Outcomes
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Joe, I think you are only seeing what you want to see. This is a disaster before it even gets fully off the ground...
    I didn't say there was going to be one. I said we'd adjust. The retirements are not that huge a problem as they are too few. But with moves towards using other providers and encouraging more doctors, we will adjust. I think your mistake is thinking it is static. Instead, it is a fluid situation.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If you think that medical care costs will go down as the percentage of insured go up then simply look at MA; this did not occur under RomneyCare.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac...eform#Outcomes
    I think they won't grow as fast. Nothing will just magically make the costs go down.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  8. #398
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I think they won't grow as fast. Nothing will just magically make the costs go down.
    That was not your assertion earlier. You implied that costs would go down as more folks received "preventive" care, as in the case of "your friend" that could have avoided expensive surgery. My point is that someone that cannot (or will not) spend $100 to see a doctor now is not any more likely to spend even $25 to see a doctor after being forced to pay $600 just for insurance (or the uninsured fine).
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That was not your assertion earlier. You implied that costs would go down as more folks received "preventive" care, as in the case of "your friend" that could have avoided expensive surgery. My point is that someone that cannot (or will not) spend $100 to see a doctor now is not any more likely to spend even $25 to see a doctor after being forced to pay $600 just for insurance (or the uninsured fine).
    Many uninsured don't go to the doctor out of fear that they have no idea the cost of just a general exam. When you have a 25$ copay, you know the cost going in. I go to the doctor and he has to do a blood test or something, I'm still out only 25$, where as the uninsured might have to shell out another 200-300 for that. I grew up til I was 21 with no insurance. I know the feeling of it, I know what it's like to have parents ask "do you think it's bad enough to actually see a doctor". I also know what it's like to have good insurance and to not have to be scared of going to the doctor for fear of emptying my back account or going bankrupt.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  10. #400
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Many uninsured don't go to the doctor out of fear that they have no idea the cost of just a general exam. When you have a 25$ copay, you know the cost going in. I go to the doctor and he has to do a blood test or something, I'm still out only 25$, where as the uninsured might have to shell out another 200-300 for that. I grew up til I was 21 with no insurance. I know the feeling of it, I know what it's like to have parents ask "do you think it's bad enough to actually see a doctor". I also know what it's like to have good insurance and to not have to be scared of going to the doctor for fear of emptying my back account or going bankrupt.
    True enough. That being said, the bottom line remains the same; someome living in fear of the high cost of medical care (low income - like myself) is better off (financially) paying for their needed medical care out of pocket, and doing all in their power to stay healthy, rather than being forced to pay 2% of their income (off the top) plus up to $6K in added out of pocket costs. I spend about $15 for my monthly blood work and medicine and about $50 every three months for a doctor visit, or $380/year, much less than the cost of what any PPACA insurance plan would cost me even if my added out of pocket costs were then slightly reduced for the doctor visits.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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