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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

  1. #381
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That "emergency" care cannot be denied whether you have insurance or not. If you are wealthy, only then is that major a concern, otherwise they write off the bad debt just as they now do and your credit rating still sucks.
    And we can use the tax dollars collected from those that don't have insurance to foot the hospital bill. We could also, over time, raise the penalty for not buying insurance.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  2. #382
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    And we can use the tax dollars collected from those that don't have insurance to foot the hospital bill. We could also, over time, raise the penalty for not buying insurance.
    This idea sounds very good until you do the simple math involved. The PPACA law requires that low income workers (the majority of the uninsured) must spend 2% to 4% of their income on medical care insurance premiums (or as the tax penalty). Medical care insurance premiums now cost about $5,000/year for a single person and $20,000/year for a family. Even assuming that all low income folks ($20K/year) are single that means that their premiuim share is capped at about $600/year leaving a balance of $4,400/year to be picked up by the taxpayers for each of them even if they do not get sick but choose to have insurance.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-24-13 at 10:24 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #383
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    This idea sounds very good until you do the simple math involved. The PPACA law requires that low income workers (the majority of the uninsured) must spend 2% to 4% of their income on medical care insurance premiums (or as the tax penalty). Medical care insurance premiums now cost about $5,000/year for a single person and $20,000/year for a family. Even assuming that all low income folks ($20K/year) are single that means that their premiuim share is capped at about $600/year leaving a balance of $4,400/year to be picked up by the taxpayers for each of them even if they do not get sick but choose to have insurance.
    You're math is completely made up. You're basically describing one person. But yes, at the end of the day, some tax money will have to go towards subsidizing low income peoples health insurance. I don't exactly think of that as a nightmare like some on your side do. I think it makes more sense to provide them health insurance which gives them access to preventative medicine and a higher quality of life rather than only footing the bill after major emergency situations. Either way it's going to happen.

    I don't know exactly what the subsidies will be but your estimate of them only paying 600 seems low. If they make that little they'll probably be on Medicaid.

    But the subsidies only make your the argument that people won't get insurance til they are sick look more ridiculous. If you're poor you'll be on medicaid, if your right above the poverty line, then the amount you'd be paying for health insurance isn't very different than your penalty for not having it, you'd be crazy not to get it. And so on and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  4. #384
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    This idea sounds very good until you do the simple math involved. The PPACA law requires that low income workers (the majority of the uninsured) must spend 2% to 4% of their income on medical care insurance premiums (or as the tax penalty). Medical care insurance premiums now cost about $5,000/year for a single person and $20,000/year for a family. Even assuming that all low income folks ($20K/year) are single that means that their premiuim share is capped at about $600/year leaving a balance of $4,400/year to be picked up by the taxpayers for each of them even if they do not get sick but choose to have insurance.
    Absolutely right...

    But there also seems to be a naïve misunderstanding by many about the consequences of the state-by-state resistance. Regardless of who sets up the health insurance exchanges, the federal government will now define the details of coverage for the majority of health insurance policies. Massive taxpayer money will now be funneled into subsidizing health insurance, while medical care access will diminish with the reductions in payments to doctors and hospitals. More Americans will be shifted to Medicaid, even though some states will reject its expansion. More employers will reduce their health benefits or shift away from scenarios where they are required to offer the coverage. More employees will be forced to change their coverage and, necessarily, their doctors too. Many private health insurance options, including some of the most popular lower cost plans, will be eliminated by the actuarial and benefits-design dictates of the law.

    The Democrats' Fallback Plan For When Obamacare Inevitably Fails - Forbes
    If Obamacare's stated goal was to broaden the health insurance market, give more options to consumers, and generally lower the cost of health insurance, courtesy of the IRS' flawless execution of yet another unprecedented government expansion, it may be in for a tough time. Because while on paper every statist plan of centrally-planned ambitions looks good, in reality things usually don't work out quite as expected. Case in point the news that Aetna will stop selling health insurance to individual consumers in California at the end of 2013, in advance of Obamacare's complete transformation of the insurance market: a transformation which just incidentally may see most private health insurance firms follow in Aetna's steps and the emergence of a single-payer system along the lines of the British National Health Service. A government-mandated and funded system which, needless to say, crushes private enterprise, and ends up costing far more for all involved than an efficient market based on individual wants, needs and capabilities constantly in flux.

    Aetna Pulls Out Of California Individual Insurance Market In Response To Obamacare | Zero Hedge
    Well, ain't that great?!!!! I wonder how long we will have to keep accurately predicting what is going to happen before people will sit up and listen?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    You're math is completely made up. You're basically describing one person. But yes, at the end of the day, some tax money will have to go towards subsidizing low income peoples health insurance. I don't exactly think of that as a nightmare like some on your side do. I think it makes more sense to provide them health insurance which gives them access to preventative medicine and a higher quality of life rather than only footing the bill after major emergency situations. Either way it's going to happen.

    I don't know exactly what the subsidies will be but your estimate of them only paying 600 seems low. If they make that little they'll probably be on Medicaid.

    But the subsidies only make your the argument that people won't get insurance til they are sick look more ridiculous. If you're poor you'll be on medicaid, if your right above the poverty line, then the amount you'd be paying for health insurance isn't very different than your penalty for not having it, you'd be crazy not to get it. And so on and so on.
    Mecidaid is available only if you are disabled or have dependents it is not an option for other single low income workers (like myself). Examine the sample CA plans under PPACA and you will see that most doctor/clinic/hospital visits (beyond your annual preventive "check-up") still require co-pays or costs that are incurred before you reach your deductable or "maximum out of pocket" that still averages about $6,000/year.

    http://www.coveredca.com/news/PDFs/C...ns_Booklet.pdf
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #386
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Mecidaid is available only if you are disabled or have dependents it is not an option for other single low income workers (like myself).
    Yes it is.

    What the Self-Employed Don't Know About Obamacare Subsidies - Businessweek
    If your annual income is at or below 138 percent of the federal poverty level, you should qualify for Medicaid, the government’s health coverage for low-income Americans. For 2013, the poverty guideline is $11,490 for one person and $23,550 for a four-person household.
    I'm not sure of your situation, but if you make below 138% of the poverty line, and your employer doesn't offer health insurance as a benefit, then you will qualify when the bill goes into full effect. If you can find a source that says differently please show it to me cause I haven't heard what you're saying anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  7. #387
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Yes it is.

    What the Self-Employed Don't Know About Obamacare Subsidies - Businessweek


    I'm not sure of your situation, but if you make below 138% of the poverty line, and your employer doesn't offer health insurance as a benefit, then you will qualify when the bill goes into full effect. If you can find a source that says differently please show it to me cause I haven't heard what you're saying anywhere.
    I don't know about your state but in Texas low income alone is not getting you on Medicaid.

    Edit: PPACA never addressed any single adult person making below 100% (133% in some states) of the federal poverty line. Show me any PPACA rate structure addressing single adult folks in that income group.

    Basic Requirements
    Regardless of income, Medicaid covers only certain groups. Generally, to qualify for coverage, you must be pregnant, the parent or guardian of a child 18 years old or under, disabled or at least 65 years old.
    Texas Medicaid Eligibility Requirements | eHow

    General Program Requirements
    In order to qualify for this benefit program, you must be a resident of the state of Texas, a US national, citizen, permanent resident, or legal alien, in need of health care/insurance assistance, whose financial situation would be characterized as low income or very low income. You must also be either pregnant, a parent or relative caretaker of a dependent child(ren) under age 19, blind, have a disability or a family member in your household with a disability, or be 65 years of age or older.
    Benefits.gov - Texas Medicaid
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-24-13 at 11:39 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I don't know about your state but in Texas low income alone is not getting you on Medicaid.



    Texas Medicaid Eligibility Requirements | eHow



    Benefits.gov - Texas Medicaid
    That's why you have medicaid expansion that passed with the Health Care Bill. Every source I can find says that individuals that have low enough income will qualify for medicaid. Worst comes to worst you get a good subsidy to pay for the majority of your premiums.

    As a libertarian what exactly do you think would be the solution to all of this? Do you think that we should just deny emergency medical care to poor people that can't pay it off?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  9. #389
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    That's why you have medicaid expansion that passed with the Health Care Bill. Every source I can find says that individuals that have low enough income will qualify for medicaid. Worst comes to worst you get a good subsidy to pay for the majority of your premiums.

    As a libertarian what exactly do you think would be the solution to all of this? Do you think that we should just deny emergency medical care to poor people that can't pay it off?
    That mandate for state Medicaid expansion was struck down by the SCOTUS. That is exactly why 27 states have refused to play the PPACA exchange game.

    Edit: Please cite one of your "everybody now gets Medicaid" sources.

    Texas resists PPACA insurance exchanges, Medicaid expansion - Articles - Employee Benefit News
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That mandate for state Medicaid expansion was struck down by the SCOTUS. That is exactly why 27 states have refused to play the PPACA exchange game.

    Edit: Please cite one of your "everybody now gets Medicaid" sources.

    Texas resists PPACA insurance exchanges, Medicaid expansion - Articles - Employee Benefit News
    If that's the case, then you should be mad at anyone then you should be mad at your legislature. All the democrats in Congress or Obama can do is offer it. If Texas wants to remain the state with the most uninsured then that's their choice.

    I wish you the best of health for the rest of your life, but if you do ever get sick and need costly services, or ever have uninsured friends that need costly services, I hope you keep in mind who the people were that turned it down and don't just blame democrats.

    And again, what's your solution? Let people die? Deny them emergency care? If your a true libertarian then that's your only answer correct?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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