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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Max Baucus retiring - Alexander Burns - POLITICO.com

    LOL!

    what an idiot...

    obama, i mean

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, let me back up a little then...I think that once this law is fully implemented that it will cause a rapid decline into services, and quality of care given to the point that the government will have no choice but to take it over fully, and run it. At that point, you will see some of the horrors reported by other countries in their own UHC systems, just in time for me to reach the point in my life where I will need increasing levels of health care....
    I don't really think that's accurate. It's not like we had a free market economy for health care before. For one thing, healthcare has been highly regulated, and even if you deregulate healthcare, the healthcare market does not exist in a vacuum. Corporate limited liability in the healthcare, insurance, pharmaceutical industries precludes a free market. So we're talking about an industry that is entirely subject to governmental artifice no matter what. The broken system we had before is no better than PACA.

    What we need is to eliminate limited liability, and let market forces operate on healthcare and the economy at large, uninhibited by government interference. Until that day, it's all the same bull****. PACA is just more of the same, and you likely won't even notice. You might even experience some benefits.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    You might even experience some benefits
    tell it to the uurwaw, teamsters, unitenow and the 1.3 million members of ufcw

    Unions break ranks on ObamaCare | TheHill

    "repeal!" rant the roofers

    obama: you can keep your plan...

    promises, promises

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    That's where you are INCREDIBLY wrong.

    Almost all insurance is you subsidizing someone else. You aren't simply "paying for yours."
    No I am correct but you managed to totally miss the point. I am not paying my own plus someone elses insurance payment which is what I will now get to do with Obamacare.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    time mag, today:

    The exchanges need roughly 2.7 million healthy 18-to-35-year-olds to sign up to be solvent. The majority of that group is nonwhite and male, according to [White House] data, and a third are located in just three states: California, Texas and Florida. If too few choose to enroll because they don’t know about the law, don’t like it, or feel they don’t need insurance, the exchanges will fail. And so will the law.
    And Now, The Selling of Obamacare | TIME.com

    time says the white house is "obsessed"

    too bad the law is so unpopular obama never talks about it in public

    buy, hey, he's got his 501c4 ofa out there working it

    OFA to launch Obamacare campaign - Katie Glueck - POLITICO.com

    on the 6 month anniversary the "extension of the admin devoted solely to the president's agenda," as the nyt describes the irs' favorite social welfare group, drew a huge crowd of 3 at its san bernadino ban-the-gun rally

    Organizing for Action rallies in San Bernardino for gun control - San Bernardino County Sun

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/us...9&%252359&_r=0

    maybe pp and the nba can turn things

    Planned Parenthood promoting Obamacare - Kathryn Smith - POLITICO.com

    White House seeks NBA assist on Obamacare - Kyle Cheney - POLITICO.com

    obama's obsessed

    so was ahab

    good luck chasing that great white whale

    the exchanges are scheduled to be up and running october 1

    choo choo!

  6. #346
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    The biggest problem - and you're right that the ACA doesn't address it - is cost. Our "market" system is highly flawed. It incentivises all the wrong things - rewarding hypochondriacs and the doctors who exploit them while punishing ones who need legitimate care. It also ignores simple solutions and treatments, in favor of expensive, highly profitable ones - regardless of outcomes. And we needlessly try to desperately hang onto life toward the end, when it's simply wasting money (I'm not talking about a 60-year-old fighting cancer; I'm talking about a 90-year-old whose family refuses to let go - we spend a LOT of money on those types).

    For instance, Americans are ordered colonoscopies more than any other nation in the world. We do them "because we should at your age," even though there is no real medical sign that it's necessary. When people try to dial that back, we shout: DEATH PANEL!!! We also pay at least twice what others pay in the world for colonoscopies.

    So, I'll agree with you that the ACA doesn't do anything for cost - at least not at present.

    But you have to recognize that no matter what type of insurance you have, you are already subsidizing the care of others - even the uninsured. And the way we're doing it right now is way too expensive.
    Oh I do recognize that. My mom was an RN, My dad was a Pharmacist, My sister is a Nurse Practitioner, and My daughter is half way to her RN now. This doesn't make me any kind of expert or anything, but I am not ignorant about the subject either. That 90 year old that is clinging to life, that the family won't say 'end it' to, is not all that cut and dried either. What if the person is lucid, and doesn't want to go, it is a natural human instinct you know? Are we really so callous to say to that person, you don't have a right to live because you're too old in our eyes? That's why doctors should get a whole lot better at counseling the families, and the ACA takes much of that decision out of the doctors hand, and places it in a government panel called the IPAB. That is not informed choice, that is government bureaucrats making a wholesale choice based on what saves, or should save money in their hands...I don't know about you, but I don't want Lois Lerner (example here) making that choice for me, or my family.

    Colonoscopies in this country are ordered at 50 because it is part of preventive care. Are you saying that we should just deal with the cancer once it appears? That seems to run against what we have been told up to this point, but that may not be what you are saying here and I understand that...I personally was so glad this year when mine came back clean, to know that I didn't have to do it again for 10 years.

    I think that if you wanted to really start to address the problem, we could have looked at more common sense things like for the young people entering the system, that have little to no expectancy of really using the types of insurance they are now forced to obtain, an HSP (Health savings plan) coupled with a catastrophic insurance plan would have sufficed, and saved them money. People at say 35 years old to say 65 years old, would fall under this mandate to have, but most people my age do have insurance through their companies they work for. And over 65 is Medicare. The one thing I would say for the 35 to 65 group, is that insurance needs to be opened up for sale across state lines, so that companies offering can obtain the best coverage for their employees possible. Right now, as it sits, the ACA has companies pondering whether or not they will just drop the coverage all together, and kick the employees to the government curb....How is that a good thing?
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Ran across this and thought it might add something:

    3. “The free market can resolve our problems in health care”
    This myth continues to underpin pro-market health care policies of both major political parties, with the belief that the marketplace can effectively resolve access, cost, and quality problems in delivery of health care services. Touted as the “American way,” this view reflects the belief that a private, competitive market exists in health care. Yet there is incontrovertible evidence that health care markets do not behave in a freely competitive way. Robert Evans (38), health care economist at the University of British Columbia, has pointed out how market mechanisms in health care yield distributional advantages for particular groups, including providers, suppliers, insurers, and more affluent and healthier people. He calls attention to the natural alliance between providers, suppliers, and higher-income citizens in support of private financing of health care, leaving the burden of financing care for the sick and uninsured to the public sector. As a result, the farther such privatization goes, the more difficult it is to finance basic health care services for sick and lower-income people through a smaller risk pool.
    It is well documented that the public interest is not well served by an unfettered private health care market, as reflected by these examples:
    • An overriding goal of for-profit health care corporations is to maximize return on investment to shareholders; thus, even during our current recession, some for-profit hospital chains have reported profits of 45 percent or more (16).
    • The extent of for-profit ownership of health care organizations is higher than many realize, including (in 1998) 85 percent of dialysis centers, 70 percent of nursing homes and home care agencies, and 64 percent of HMOs (39).
    • Investor-owned health care organizations provide lower quality care than do nonprofit organizations (e.g., investor-owned HMOs scored worse in a 1999 study on all 14 quality indicators reported to the National Committee for Quality Assurance, such as 27 percent lower rate of eye examinations for patients with diabetes) (26).
    • The overhead of investor-owned HMOs is 25 to 33 percent higher for some of the largest HMOs than for nonprofit HMOs (40).
    • Market-oriented HMOs commonly use many strategies designed more to manage costs than to manage care (e.g., “deselection” (firing) of high- utilizing physicians, attempts to enroll healthier enrollees rather than sicker ones) (41).

    http://www.pnhp.org/reader-old/Secti...20(Geyman).pdf

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's why doctors should get a whole lot better at counseling the families, and the ACA takes much of that decision out of the doctors hand, and places it in a government panel called the IPAB. That is not informed choice, that is government bureaucrats making a wholesale choice based on what saves, or should save money in their hands...I don't know about you, but I don't want Lois Lerner (example here) making that choice for me, or my family.
    No it doesn't. You remember the outcry from the right when they tried to encourage counseling by including it without a copay in the ACA?
    Still, the give-and-take was nothing compared to the howls of protest that emerged when proponents tried to include end-of-life counseling in the law itself. Sarah Palin, the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee, called them "death panels." John Boehner, the incoming GOP House speaker, said it was akin to the government recommending euthanasia.

    Obama-care: No 'death panels,' but annual counseling allowed
    Do you know what IPAB is and how it functions? It submits proposals to reign in Medicare costs, IF Medicare costs exceeds a certain target threshold.

    By law, these proposals cannot ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums, increase deductibles, coinsurance, co-payments, or restrict benefits.

    Congress also has the option to override these proposals.

    As a footnote that target threshold wasn't reached for 2015 - the first year that the IPAB was to be in effect.
    As health-care costs slow, IPAB’s launch is delayed

    Also a board hasn't been appointed yet, partly because of Boehner and McConnell's refusal to appoint their allocation of conservative board members. Ironically, without a board, this gives HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius sole responsibility to submit such proposals, if necessary.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    California lawmakers passed a law (Senate Bill 35) requiring that voter registration be part of the health insurance exchange.

    Last month, Covered California announced $37 million in grants to 48 organizations to build public awareness about the opening of the health exchange on Oct. 1.

    Of the 48 organizations that got grants, only a handful are health-care related. The California NAACP received $600,000 to do door-to-door canvassing and presentations at community organizations.

    Service Employees International Union, which says its mission is “economic justice,” received two grants totaling $2 million to make phone calls, robo-calls and go door to door.

    The Los Angeles County Federation of Labor AFL-CIO got $1 million for door-to-door, one-on-one education and social networking. It describes its role as “engaging in both organizing and political campaigns, electing pro-union and pro-worker candidates.”
    Taking ObamaCare of Business | National Review Online

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    No it doesn't. You remember the outcry from the right when they tried to encourage counseling by including it without a copay in the ACA?


    Do you know what IPAB is and how it functions? It submits proposals to reign in Medicare costs, IF Medicare costs exceeds a certain target threshold.

    By law, these proposals cannot ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums, increase deductibles, coinsurance, co-payments, or restrict benefits.

    Congress also has the option to override these proposals.

    As a footnote that target threshold wasn't reached for 2015 - the first year that the IPAB was to be in effect.
    As health-care costs slow, IPAB’s launch is delayed

    Also a board hasn't been appointed yet, partly because of Boehner and McConnell's refusal to appoint their allocation of conservative board members. Ironically, without a board, this gives HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius sole responsibility to submit such proposals, if necessary.
    The "outcry" means nothing to progressives that have chosen a back door to UHC against the will of the people. Nothing, and I do mean NOTHING this administration, or their progressive allies in the House and Senate have done over the past 5 years reassures people that they can trust this corrupt bunch of lying criminals....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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