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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Or the leaders of the country could just be honest about their intent.
    Their real intent, or the one you wish to impose on them?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I think you're missing the entire concept of health insurance.
    I think you're missing the entire concept of choice.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    ibd this morning:

    Local Governments Cut Part-Time Hours To Avoid ObamaCare Mandate - Investors.com

    When Regal Entertainment Group (RGC) in April blamed ObamaCare for the fact that it was cutting some of its workers' hours, backers of the law mounted a furious backlash against the theater chain, among other things filling its Facebook page with boycott threats.

    "Greed and selfishness make me sick," one of them said.

    Darden Restaurants (DRI) felt this intense heat last year after suggesting it might shift to more part-time work to minimize the cost of the law's mandate that companies offer coverage to all their full-time workers. CEO Clarence Otis even blamed its lowered outlook for 2013 in part on "recent negative media coverage" over "how we might accommodate health care reform."

    Yet while private companies are getting all this unwelcome and hostile attention, local governments across the country have been doing exactly the same thing — cutting part-time hours specifically so they can skirt ObamaCare's costly employer mandate, while complaining about the law in some of the harshest terms anyone has uttered in public.

    The result is that part-time government workers — many of them low-income — face pay cuts that can top $3,000 a year, and yet will still be left without employer-provided benefits.

    Here is just a small sampling of local news reports about what local government officials are saying about ObamaCare, and the steps they're taking to avoid or minimize its costs.

    Phillipsburg, Kan.: "School administrators here say they are alarmed and confounded by the looming new costs they face with the implementation of the Affordable Care Act," according to the Kaiser Health Institute News Service. Chris Hipp, director of a Kansas special education cooperative, warned that ObamaCare's costs "could put us all out of business or change significantly how we do business," adding that "we are not built to pay full health benefits for noncertified folks who work a little more than 1,000 hours a year."

    Dearborn, Mich.: "If we had to provide health care and other benefits to all of our employees, the burden on the city would be tremendous," said Mayor John O'Reilly, explaining why the city is cutting its more than 700 part-time and seasonal workers down to 28 hours a week. "The city is like any private or public employer having to adjust to changes in the law."

    Indiana: "What I'm seeing across the state is school districts, unfortunately, having to reduce the hours that they are having some of their folks work, primarily so they don't have to worry about the (ObamaCare) penalties, or they don't have to provide them health insurance, which would be very, very costly," said Dennis Costerison, executive director of the Indiana Association of School Business Officials. Ft. Wayne Community Schools, for example, are cutting hours for nearly three-quarters of its part-time aides.
    surprised?

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post

    Not surprised in the least, it's just more of the same. Americans appear to be willing to cut off their noses to spite their faces. All to buck Obama on an issue that they were overwhelmingly in favour of fixing right from the beginning. Before they started erecting roadblocks that would attempt to ensure it's failure.

    Oh, but wait, maybe I'm missing something important here?
    Why yes I am. The rest of the world with universal health care are a bunch of commies!
    Got it!

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    maybe I'm missing something important here
    Obamacare author warns of train wreck | WashingtonExaminer

    too easy

    stay tuned

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    the gao is racist

    today:

    Government officials have missed several deadlines in setting up new health-insurance exchanges for small businesses and consumers—a key part of the federal health overhaul—and there is a risk they won’t be ready to open on time in October, Congress’s watchdog arm said.

    The Government Accountability Office said federal and state health officials still have major work to complete, offering its most cautious comments to date about the Obama administration’s ability to bring the centerpiece of its signature law to fruition.

    “Whether [the government's] contingency planning will assure the timely and smooth implementation of the exchanges by October 2013 cannot yet be determined,” said the GAO in twin reports to be released Wednesday.
    Health-Insurance Exchanges Are Falling Behind Schedule - WSJ.com

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    Of course I do. I pay for mine each month and now, thanks to Obamacare I'll get to pay someone elses too!
    That's where you are INCREDIBLY wrong.

    Almost all insurance is you subsidizing someone else. You aren't simply "paying for yours." You're paying into a risk pool with a lot of other people. Some of you will be healthy and the insurance company will make money off of you. Others will not be and the insurance company will lose money. The reason "individual" policies are so much more expensive than employer policies is because your risk pool is much smaller and the odds are higher that someone will use more than they pay in - thus premium is higher. If you work for a company of 15,000 people, your premiums are lower because the risk is shared with more people.

    This is the most BASIC principle of insurance. If you don't get that you've been subsidizing others ALL ALONG, then you are way out of your league when it comes to this topic.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Emergency services you have a small point, but even then many emergency services are not life threatening. For example that broken leg you speak of. If you are transported to a hospital and it is a simple fracture that needs to be set, chances are that you do have the availability to shop around for price points, and competency.

    In other scenarios that may not be the case, but no one ever said that the system didn't need to be fixed, just that taking it over in a quasi fascist way was not the answer.
    The biggest problem - and you're right that the ACA doesn't address it - is cost. Our "market" system is highly flawed. It incentivises all the wrong things - rewarding hypochondriacs and the doctors who exploit them while punishing ones who need legitimate care. It also ignores simple solutions and treatments, in favor of expensive, highly profitable ones - regardless of outcomes. And we needlessly try to desperately hang onto life toward the end, when it's simply wasting money (I'm not talking about a 60-year-old fighting cancer; I'm talking about a 90-year-old whose family refuses to let go - we spend a LOT of money on those types).

    For instance, Americans are ordered colonoscopies more than any other nation in the world. We do them "because we should at your age," even though there is no real medical sign that it's necessary. When people try to dial that back, we shout: DEATH PANEL!!! We also pay at least twice what others pay in the world for colonoscopies.

    So, I'll agree with you that the ACA doesn't do anything for cost - at least not at present.

    But you have to recognize that no matter what type of insurance you have, you are already subsidizing the care of others - even the uninsured. And the way we're doing it right now is way too expensive.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    Love brave politicians:

    Politically, the strategy is similar to the one many Republicans who voted for the Iraq War pursued when the public soured on the war. They’d defend their support for the war effort while finding a way to distance themselves from elements of President Bush’s strategy, such as troop levels. Ultimately, this didn’t shield many Republicans from the Democratic wave in 2006 and I imagine if Obamacare implementation fails, a Baucus-style pivot won’t save vulnerable Democrats.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    The biggest problem - and you're right that the ACA doesn't address it - is cost
    but that was the point, bending down the cost trajectory

    Rising Health Costs Undermine Obama Pledge to Curb Trend - ABC News

    During the 2008 campaign and health care reform debate in 2009, President Obama said repeatedly that his plan would bend the cost curve downward, ultimately saving the average family $2,500 per year.

    At a rally in Virginia in June 2008, Obama said: “In an Obama administration, we’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year.”

    “We’ll do it by investing in disease prevention, not just disease management; by investing in a paperless health care system to reduce administrative costs; and by covering every single American and making sure that they can take their health care with them if they lose their job,” he said at the time. “We’ll also reduce costs for business and their workers by picking up the tab for some of the most expensive illnesses.

    “We won’t do all this twenty years from now, or ten years from now,” he said. “We’ll do it by the end of my first term as President of the United States.”

    And in a debate with Sen. John McCain in October 2008: “The only thing we’re going to try to do is lower costs so that those cost savings are passed onto you. And we estimate we can cut the average family’s premium by about $2,500 per year,” he said.
    promises, promises...

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