Page 29 of 58 FirstFirst ... 19272829303139 ... LastLast
Results 281 to 290 of 576

Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

  1. #281
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    No, I am not clearly trying to tie it to heritage. I was actually tying it to RomneyCare. By in any event, what the plan actually does is center-right, not leftist.
    That is only if you believe that Romney was center right.....In addition, although Obama, and progressives in congress tried very dishonestly to craft just enough of the law as to make comparisons to the Mass. law, that was only done to run cover for the unpopularity of what this 3,000 page disaster actually does.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #282
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is only if you believe that Romney was center right.....In addition, although Obama, and progressives in congress tried very dishonestly to craft just enough of the law as to make comparisons to the Mass. law, that was only done to run cover for the unpopularity of what this 3,000 page disaster actually does.
    Your problem is that you are not looking at what the plan actually does, you are mindlessly applying labels based on faction. As categorical matter, both Romney Care and PACA are center-right. They are only "left" from the point of view of the extreme right.

  3. #283
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So then, why would you put forth this premise?



    So, you say that the ACA will 'control' costs, because you think that everyone will be forced to carry insurance so that the costs of things like band aid's in hospitals will no longer have to be inflated to cover those without insurance that don't pay, yet when called on that statement you play like you never said anything of the kind, and admit that it is not in the ACA to do that....
    Because you don't seem to actually see the premise I'm putting forth. Not that there is a law or force, but that it should be the by product of having more people covered.

    It is? where?
    Other throughout this thread, including me, have shown the innovation coming about due to this legislation. I don't have time to repeat it this morning, but you should be able to find it.


    In some cases I guess they very well could be "greedy bastards", but I never said that. I mean there is probably some of that when a surgical procedure in one hospital costs $7000. and down the road 10 mi. the same procedure cost $52,000. You tell me.

    But I don't think that this bill does anything to seriously address that problem, and isn't meant to...That isn't the purpose of the law.
    As I've told you many times, the bill has more than one purpose. Increasing access is another purpose. It does that better than controlling costs, but there are some cost improvements likely.



    I am not a health care professional, even though I have a family member that is, and my daughter is in nursing school now....But I do know that you are making the mistake of "either/or" thinking.
    ===============================
    On opening up markets:
    First, that's not what I'm doing. Second, I asked for you to give me another reason. This allows for the possibility of more than two. Can you give me another reason?


    It doesn't? Tell me how health care is different from any other service that makes it not susceptible to market forces?
    For what, the 10th millionth time? There is a different relationship between provider and patient. Your daughter will learn this if she hasn't already. The leverage is all in the hands of the provide, especially in life threatening of changing situations. It would kind of be like negotiating with the police while you're being mugged or the fire department while your house is burning.

    This runs contrary to free markets, and what we know to be the truth in how it works from experience in this country...So, I would have to ask that you prove this ridiculous statement.
    You're mistaken about what we actually know. What you're spouting is what you believe. We know that the market has issues when it comes to things like medicine.

    So, more choice, and less legal thievery will not bring down costs? You make no sense.
    First, choice has not been done away with and likely won't. And how you get less theft should be interesting to hear.

    I gave you links showing you to be wrong years ago. Not sure why you continue to keep taking this absurd line of thinking.
    I can't help what you think you've done, but everything you've ever presented has always been countered. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #284
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Your problem is that you are not looking at what the plan actually does, you are mindlessly applying labels based on faction. As categorical matter, both Romney Care and PACA are center-right. They are only "left" from the point of view of the extreme right.
    Forcing a label on someone because they don't agree with a plan or proposal that you back is not any indication of level of ideology, as much as it is telling about the tact that supporters of a law that was rammed through on a partisan line, with no compromise from dissenting voice, and even at least in two cases outright bribery of members of the majority passing it, against the will of the people, in the middle of the night, under NO review before passage. And yet, you still use terms like "extreme" to label those whom disagree with you on this....Sorry Guy, that just isn't right.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  5. #285
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Because you don't seem to actually see the premise I'm putting forth. Not that there is a law or force, but that it should be the by product of having more people covered.
    For many reasons, this law may pay lip service to that notion, but doesn't actually get it done...Remember you still have some 30 million that are left uncovered by this.

    Other throughout this thread, including me, have shown the innovation coming about due to this legislation. I don't have time to repeat it this morning, but you should be able to find it.
    That's a dodge. I don't care if the points you want to make were in 100 other threads, at 100 different points in time in the past. You make the claim, you back it up.

    As I've told you many times, the bill has more than one purpose.
    It's main purpose is to lead to UHC....Both Nancy Pelosi, and Tom Harkin said so.

    First, that's not what I'm doing. Second, I asked for you to give me another reason. This allows for the possibility of more than two. Can you give me another reason?
    First, that is what you are doing. Second, it isn't up to me to define what you are defending. I know what my opinion is about it, and what yours is. What we are seeing unfold is a disaster.

    For what, the 10th millionth time? There is a different relationship between provider and patient. Your daughter will learn this if she hasn't already. The leverage is all in the hands of the provide, especially in life threatening of changing situations. It would kind of be like negotiating with the police while you're being mugged or the fire department while your house is burning.
    Does that mean that you would trust the federal government to run your local police, or fire dept?

    You're mistaken about what we actually know. What you're spouting is what you believe. We know that the market has issues when it comes to things like medicine.
    And you are doing differently? Nah, I don't think so...We are both offering opinions here on what we think is going to unfold...Unless you have some sort of crystal ball or something....

    First, choice has not been done away with and likely won't. And how you get less theft should be interesting to hear.
    Sure it has...wait and see. And the theft I am speaking of is in terms of freedom to choose.

    I can't help what you think you've done, but everything you've ever presented has always been countered. Sorry.
    Unfortunately for you, many of the counters you offer are weak, and rely largely on your opinion as if that is fact, so, no need for apology, just start being more honest in your argument, and everything should be fine.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #286
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Forcing a label on someone because they don't agree with a plan or proposal that you back is not any indication of level of ideology, as much as it is telling about the tact that supporters of a law that was rammed through on a partisan line, with no compromise from dissenting voice, and even at least in two cases outright bribery of members of the majority passing it, against the will of the people, in the middle of the night, under NO review before passage. And yet, you still use terms like "extreme" to label those whom disagree with you on this....Sorry Guy, that just isn't right.
    You're projecting. I don't support the law, but I recognize it for what it is: center-right. You, on the other hand, opposing the law and want to apply a false label to it because you don't want to associate with it, therefor you call a right wing plan a left wing plan. This is intellectual dishonesty on your part.

  7. #287
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You're projecting. I don't support the law, but I recognize it for what it is: center-right. You, on the other hand, opposing the law and want to apply a false label to it because you don't want to associate with it, therefor you call a right wing plan a left wing plan. This is intellectual dishonesty on your part.
    How many "right wingers" were involved in the construction of Obamacare? Not the Romney plan for MA, not the Heritage plan, not anything other than Obama care....How many?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. #288
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    For many reasons, this law may pay lip service to that notion, but doesn't actually get it done...Remember you still have some 30 million that are left uncovered by .
    I have neither the time nor the patience for the sentence by sentence response.



    The law has reduced unjustified overpayments to private Medicare Advantage plans, which enroll more than a fifth of all beneficiaries, and despite fears to the contrary, Medicare Advantage premiums have fallen by 10 percent and enrollment has risen by 28 percent since the

    (Snip)

    BETTER QUALITY OF CARE One of the most promising aspects of the health reform act is its focus on improving quality. The percentage of Medicare patients requiring readmission to the hospital within 30 days of discharge dropped from an average of 19 percent over the past five years to 17.8 percent in the last half of 2012, an improvement due in large part to penalties imposed by Medicare for poor performance and financial incentives paid by Medicare to providers to encourage better coordination of care after a patient leaves the hospital.

    A number of pilot programs in Medicare and Medicaid have been started to reward quality, to encourage doctors and hospitals to coordinate care, and to lower costs. If enough of these experiments pan out, they could transform not only Medicare but the entire health care system.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/op...form.html?_r=0

    Some measures have already taken effect. HHS has started to reward hospitals for providing good care, rather than lots of it.

    Health-care reform: The 12-month countdown | The Economist

    Just a couple. There's more if you want.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #289
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    How many "right wingers" were involved in the construction of Obamacare? Not the Romney plan for MA, not the Heritage plan, not anything other than Obama care....How many?
    You appear to be ignorant of the fact that Obama himself is a center right politician.

  10. #290
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,016

    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You appear to be ignorant of the fact that Obama himself is a center right politician.
    In what universe?
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

Page 29 of 58 FirstFirst ... 19272829303139 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •