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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The simple status of being "covered" by something does not make the price tag of a health care service drop.
    Not sure you understand what I said by that response. Think about it a little while.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure you understand what I said by that response. Think about it a little while.
    I have thought about it plenty. Being "covered" does not cause the cost of anything to go down. It might channel the payment through some other conduit but it does not change the $16 price tag on that bandaid. Access is not a cost control. Something additional would have to happen.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I have thought about it plenty. Being "covered" does not cause the cost of anything to go down. It might channel the payment through some other conduit but it does not change the $16 price tag on that bandaid. Access is not a cost control. Something additional would have to happen.
    You haven't thought enough.

    Not one person being covered. A majority bring covered makes for fewer people using services they can't pay for. That, not having to make up for those who don't pay is what brings it down.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You haven't thought enough.

    Not one person being covered. A majority bring covered makes for fewer people using services they can't pay for.
    The same number of people out there can't afford health care whether we decide to change their status to "covered" or not. There is no greater amount of money suddenly appearing in the system just because more people are arbitrarily granted access.

    That, not having to make up for those who don't pay is what brings it down.
    Almost nobody out there who doesn't pay actually can.

    All along, liberals have been misinterpreting the problem.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The same number of people out there can't afford health care whether we decide to change their status to "covered" or not. There is no greater amount of money suddenly appearing in the system just because more people are arbitrarily granted access.



    Almost nobody out there who doesn't pay actually can.

    All along, liberals have been misinterpreting the problem.
    It's not he system. Your not thinking I through. Not making much sense either.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's not he system. Your not thinking I through. Not making much sense either.
    Generally speaking, the reason people aren't covered is because they can't afford health insurance, so obviously nor can they afford very much health care. These people end up getting health care, but they don't pay for it.

    You're making the common liberal error of thinking that if we shift the cost around, that means the cost has gone down. Channeling the reimbursements through an insurance mechanism does not cause costs of medical services and products to decrease.

    If I am poor and have a $16 bandaid applied to me and they bill me and I refuse payment, the provider might spread the cost around to everyone else. If I'm poor but legislation has considered me "covered" and I have a $16 bandaid applied to me, and the insuring agent remits the $16 for the bandaid, the provider does not have to spread that cost to other patients (yay!), but now the insurer does (boo!). In both cases the high cost of health care is being spread to others. What's still missing is a (cost control) mechanism by which the $16 bandaid would under no circumstances be applied to my skin, but a $1.50 bandaid would be.

    Like I said, some additional action is needed on somebody's part in order to control cost.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 06-15-13 at 10:36 PM.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Generally speaking, the reason people aren't covered is because they can't afford health insurance, so obviously nor can they afford very much health care. These people end up getting health care, but they don't pay for it.

    You're making the common liberal error of thinking that if we shift the cost around, that means the cost has gone down. Channeling the reimbursements through an insurance mechanism does not cause costs of medical services and products to decrease.

    If I am poor and have a $16 bandaid applied to me and they bill me and I refuse payment, the provider might spread the cost around to everyone else. If I'm poor but legislation has considered me "covered" and I have a $16 bandaid applied to me, and the insuring agent remits the $16 for the bandaid, the provider does not have to spread that cost to other patients (yay!), but now the insurer does (boo!). In both cases the high cost of health care is being spread to others. What's still missing is a (cost control) mechanism by which the $16 bandaid would under no circumstances be applied to my skin, but a $1.50 bandaid would be.

    Like I said, some additional action is needed on somebody's part in order to control cost.

    Making no such error, and you continue to demonstrate you don't know what's being said. Currently the uninsured get care. Providers raise costs for those who pay to cover this. Thus a bandaid that costs mere change, is charged out at sixteen dollars per bandaid. If premiums are collected, through those who can pay and by taxes or other means these people now have the means to pay. This means the cost of the bandaid can't be argued at sixteen dollars. It should come down.

    Now you may argue the payment shifts for those who can afford to pay the hospital to those who can afford to pay taxes, which partly true. But it is unlikely it will be as expensive as this non system of providers charging whatever thy think covers it. We should be above to better see where the money is going. This should help lower costs.

    It. Is but one way cost may be lowered. With more attention end paid, as it is happening around the country, we can also use alternative ways to provide care. But, we have to ave a better sense of where the money is going.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Making no such error, and you continue to demonstrate you don't know what's being said. Currently the uninsured get care. Providers raise costs for those who pay to cover this. Thus a bandaid that costs mere change, is charged out at sixteen dollars per bandaid. If premiums are collected, through those who can pay and by taxes or other means these people now have the means to pay.
    It still looks like you mistaken believe that a significant number of people who don't have the money to pay for much of anything (whether insurance or care) will somehow end up paying. Or, stated another way, that there are many people out there getting health care for free but who could afford to be paying. I don't believe this is true in general, with one glaring exception: Medicare beneficiaries.

    Now you may argue the payment shifts for those who can afford to pay the hospital to those who can afford to pay taxes, which partly true. But it is unlikely it will be as expensive as this non system of providers charging whatever thy think covers it. We should be above to better see where the money is going. This should help lower costs.
    I can't make sense of what you're trying to say in this paragraph.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 06-15-13 at 11:29 PM.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

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    Last edited by Michael66; 06-15-13 at 11:34 PM.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It still looks like you mistaken believe that a significant number of people who don't have the money to pay for much of anything (whether insurance or care) will somehow end up paying. Or, stated another way, that there are many people out there getting health care for free but who could afford to be paying. I don't believe this is true in general, with one glaring exception: Medicare beneficiaries.



    I can't make sense of what you're trying to say in this paragraph.
    what he's trying to tell you isn't rocket science. You're just not paying attention to the elementary instructions in understanding economics. You need to get by that before you can talk on his level about health care. And alas, for a libertarian it seems to me that would be an impossibility. The world of imaginary pie in the sky politics needs to be separated from reality.

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