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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    actually you're overlooking the fact that you're going to have to balance new members with people that are going to use more than they pay into the system. And one of the big issues with this bill is that it took no steps to widen access to primary care, or deal with the issue of doctors unwilling to take medicaid patients. This is likely to stear more individuals into ER's now that they have coverage
    Not hardly. Younger people are not likely to use more than they pay in, and they are a large part of the population who should be now getting insurance. And it is false that took no action to encourage an increase in primary care. They did both in encouraging more doctors and in encouraging different methods of delivery. Someone mentioned this earlier (shockingly ignored).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not hardly. Younger people are not likely to use more than they pay in, and they are a large part of the population who should be now getting insurance. And it is false that took no action to encourage an increase in primary care. They did both in encouraging more doctors and in encouraging different methods of delivery. Someone mentioned this earlier (shockingly ignored).
    Actually if you research the situation with the exchanges in mass you would realize a current issue is that they are not getting the numbers of healthy payers to off set the cost of high use and subsadized plans.

    Also, its a pretty long thread and never claimed to be familier with all of it. But feel free to cite the relevent material. I would love to read it.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Logic and math. What makes insurance affordable is having large numbers of people
    Right, but there are many scenerios where that might not happen. Its been an ongoing issue, at various levels in mass, in fact.

    [QuoteThe more people on insurance, the less it should cost. That's how it works. [/quote]

    Not exactly. Take for instance the problem outlined in the article I previously cited for you. It talks about the crippling rate increases experianced by small business because they combined small business and the individual market.

    The trade off was a lower rate for individuals

    And with more people covered, less are using services they can't pay for, so that decreases the need to hike costs.
    Actually your likely to have a drastic increase in demand for services now that people are covored. In fact, this has been pretty well documented in mass ERs.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Actually if you research the situation with the exchanges in mass you would realize a current issue is that they are not getting the numbers of healthy payers to off set the cost of high use and subsadized plans.

    Also, its a pretty long thread and never claimed to be familier with all of it. But feel free to cite the relevent material. I would love to read it.
    Then they aren't doing it right.


    For instance, more than 250 hospitals and physician groups joined the Obama administration's accountable care program and have shown early success.

    Mount Sinai Care in New York City reports emergency room visits fell 54 percent among high-risk patients. The organization signed up for the Medicare Shared Savings Program to better enable population management and cost-effective medicine, Mark Callahan, M.D., CEO of Mount Sinai Care and FierceHealthcare Editorial Advisory Board member, told FierceHealthcare in a previous interview.

    Healthcare reform shows early signs of success - FierceHealthcare

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Right, but there are many scenerios where that might not happen. Its been an ongoing issue, at various levels in mass, in fact.


    Not exactly. Take for instance the problem outlined in the article I previously cited for you. It talks about the crippling rate increases experianced by small business because they combined small business and the individual market.

    The trade off was a lower rate for individuals



    Actually your likely to have a drastic increase in demand for services now that people are covored. In fact, this has been pretty well documented in mass ERs.
    Demand for services is not a problem for costs. Not paying for them is.

    As for business, this is why UHC would be better. Insurance should not be attached to employment. And individuals can't afford it unless attached to large groups, and little is larger than everyone.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    The more people on insurance, the less it costs! Obviously!
    This is why universal health care works and the US system of health care for profit doesn't. And how long will Americans continue to drag their feet kicking and screaming from hearing the truth before they just come to their senses.

    Most likely a soon as Obama's gone and the racist hate starts to vanish. Then the Repubs themselves will come back in line to what they all knew was the 'fix' right from the start! Great entertainment though!

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Then they aren't doing it right.


    For instance, more than 250 hospitals and physician groups joined the Obama administration's accountable care program and have shown early success.

    Mount Sinai Care in New York City reports emergency room visits fell 54 percent among high-risk patients. The organization signed up for the Medicare Shared Savings Program to better enable population management and cost-effective medicine, Mark Callahan, M.D., CEO of Mount Sinai Care and FierceHealthcare Editorial Advisory Board member, told FierceHealthcare in a previous interview.

    Healthcare reform shows early signs of success - FierceHealthcare
    I'm not sure how that speaks to my above point about the effects of expanded care, particularly via govt programs. Those programs have shown success in it's absence

    EDIT: You also seemingly ignored by point about the lack of healthy and full paying individuals in the exchanges ...
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 06-15-13 at 04:51 PM.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    The more people on insurance, the less it costs! Obviously!
    This is why universal health care works and the US system of health care for profit doesn't.
    this just expands that for profit system

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Demand for services is not a problem for costs.
    How do you figure that?

    As for business, this is why UHC would be better.
    Well UHC isn't what we have. What we have is current law and you are arguing it will have a positive effects on costs and premiums. Clearly that is not true in all cases, as with small businesses ...

    Insurance should not be attached to employment.
    I'm not sure why you are trying to change topics here

    And individuals can't afford it unless attached to large groups, and little is larger than everyone.
    reads like an empty platitude

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    this just expands that for profit system
    It's just become an exercise in contrariness toward everything that Obama has tried to do. Until that basic truth is accepted then there's really no good reason to go around in circles on the issue. Universal health care is the only answer and until that comes about your system will continue to bankrupt your country and fail the people.

    If you are interested in discussing it with a Canadian in an honest way then I'm more than happy to oblige. That will include criticisms of our system and my excuses for why it can be criticized. Along with the obvious solutions for making it as good as France's. The world's best!

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