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Thread: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

  1. #181
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure what that has to do with what I said, but there is really little reason it should. At the end of the day, the only issue are the finds and s Hirt term fees. Preventing passing those on, numbers I've seen, would still be less of an increase than we saw I've or six years ago.
    I would researching the topic before merely dismissing the concern ...

    Health Reform Lessons from Massachusetts, Part VII : Columbia Journalism Review

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I would researching the topic before merely dismissing the concern ...

    Health Reform Lessons from Massachusetts, Part VII : Columbia Journalism Review
    Read what said again.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    The first thing I'm going to say on this issue is "state's rights".

    Second, "the free market system".

    Third (and it's a shame I even have to state the obvious) ObamaCare DOES NOT set the insurance rates nor deductables. That's totally up to the private insurance company.

    NEXT!

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The first thing I'm going to say on this issue is "state's rights".

    Second, "the free market system".

    Third (and it's a shame I even have to state the obvious) ObamaCare DOES NOT set the insurance rates nor deductables. That's totally up to the private insurance company.

    NEXT!
    Ok. I'll bite.

    States haven't dealt with it.

    The market doesn't really handle this issue. It will always cater to the wealthy and largely crap on the poor. As it is more a public health issue than a widget, or even a service (think fire department or police), it falls into a different category.

    On the last one, I quite agree.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    he's being rational, given guaranteed issuance.
    Again, this guaranteed insurance ting is BS. Yes, you can't be denied, but the idea that you will be able to get insurance before some catastrophic surgery is needed is ridiculous. I outline in another thread that one of my friends just had an aneurism and was rushed to the hospital by ambulance for an emergency surgery followed by 14 days in the hospital, most of it in the ICU. His bill is right at 300,000 dollars and he hasn't even received all of them. If anyone thinks that just holding out on insurance because it's "guaranteed" is a smart option, then they are a ****ing moron, at best. It's never guaranteed, especially when you are passed out on the operating table.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Again, this guaranteed insurance ting is BS. Yes, you can't be denied, but the idea that you will be able to get insurance before some catastrophic surgery is needed is ridiculous. I outline in another thread that one of my friends just had an aneurism and was rushed to the hospital by ambulance for an emergency surgery followed by 14 days in the hospital, most of it in the ICU. His bill is right at 300,000 dollars and he hasn't even received all of them. If anyone thinks that just holding out on insurance because it's "guaranteed" is a smart option, then they are a ****ing moron, at best. It's never guaranteed, especially when you are passed out on the operating table.
    There are many high cost scenarios where one wouldn't be rushed to the emergency room, though. Any cancer treatment or long term chronic illness, just for starters

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Ok. I'll bite.

    States haven't dealt with it.

    The market doesn't really handle this issue. It will always cater to the wealthy and largely crap on the poor. As it is more a public health issue than a widget, or even a service (think fire department or police), it falls into a different category.

    On the last one, I quite agree.
    Ah! But states will have to deal with it eventually as in this case with CA since the Silver Plan this thread is based on apparently is via their state-sponsored HIE. As such, states do have the option to opt-out of ObamaCare and run their exchanges as they see fit OR let the fed handle it. Seems to me Cali has decided to comply with the law which was their choice. Hence, state's rights.

    You could say that ObamaCare interferes w/the health insurance market in one respect - via the individual mandate which forces everyone who can afford health insurance to buy it - but all that does is put more customers into the private health insurance market. Thus, you are correct when you state that Silver Plans will cater to a wealthier class of people as it's intended to do. This in no way, however, dictates which insurance company said customers should obtain their insurance from. That choice is still left up to the individual; the competition still rests with the number of health insurance providers who participate in the state-sponsored exchange.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Again, this guaranteed insurance ting is BS. Yes, you can't be denied, but the idea that you will be able to get insurance before some catastrophic surgery is needed is ridiculous. I outline in another thread that one of my friends just had an aneurism and was rushed to the hospital by ambulance for an emergency surgery followed by 14 days in the hospital, most of it in the ICU. His bill is right at 300,000 dollars and he hasn't even received all of them. If anyone thinks that just holding out on insurance because it's "guaranteed" is a smart option, then they are a ****ing moron, at best. It's never guaranteed, especially when you are passed out on the operating table.
    First, I'll try to speak to the alleged "guarantee" I believe you're referring to as in "a guarantee of coverage by the Sec, HHS" w/health insurance credits where ObamaCare is concerned. Per the law, only low-income families/individuals far below the federal poverty level are "guaranteed" coverage. But a similar income matrix is used for other social programs, i.e., TANF, WIC, Medicaid, SSI, HUD and so many others. I see no difference here w/ObamaCare.

    Second, those individuals who are either dropped from their employer's insurance plan OR are denied coverage by their employer can migrate to the federal HIE. But there's no guarantee that the fed would help off-set the cost since the individual is still employed and, thus, is likely financially able to still pay for health insurance coverage out of his/her own pocket.

    Third, there are caveats to applying for insurance waivers mostly from non-profit organizations and associations. However, the law does illustrate some cases where the individual can apply for a waiver as well.

    I mention the last part merely to illustrate the point that although the law does try to get as many participants as possible insured, not everyone will want to participate whether they can afford to or not, whether they are "mandated" or not. There is no guarantee either way, but you do have the right and opportunity to submit your request to the Sec, HHS and say either "I don't want to participate and here's why" or "HELP! I need health insurance and can't afford it."
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  9. #189
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce
    Anyone who thinks Obamacare threatens the insurance industry should keep in mind that the insurance industry wrote the bill.
    Sorry to say Deuce, but that is just simply untrue....Although, you may have a slight semantic argument in that people that were in the insurance industry, that were 'far left' in their politics, may have helped craft the language of the original bill, you must remember that this monstrosity went through in all the rewrites, and special deals to gain its passage, the final product had little to do with insurance companies desires, or the American peoples for that matter....


    The president of a George Soros-funded “progressive” think tank has boasted about helping to write President Obama’s signature healthcare legislation.

    Neera Tanden, president of the Center for American Progress, or CAP, appeared Friday night on HBO’s “Real Time with Bill Maher” when she was asked by another guest, James Poulos of the Huffington Post, whether she read the text of Obamacare. “Yes,” she replied. “I helped write the bill. So yes, I read the bill. I read all 2,200 pages of the bill.”

    Tanden assumed her CAP position in November 2011 after serving as a senior advisor for the U.S. Health and Human Services. She also worked on Obama’s health-reform team in the White House to help pass the Affordable Care Act. Tanden argued in a February 2012 CAP report that individual mandates within Obamacare “will be instrumental in achieving near-universal coverage.”

    snip

    The CAP is funded by billionaire George Soros. Its board includes Van Jones, Obama’s former “green jobs” czar, who resigned in September 2009 after it was exposed he founded a communist revolutionary organization.

    Another primary CAP funder is the Tides Foundation. Tides is also a primary funder to radical groups such as MoveOn.org, Media Matters for America and the now defunct Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN.


    - See more at: SOROS-FUNDED ACTIVIST: ‘I HELPED WRITE OBAMACARE.’ Argued individual mandates will achieve ‘near-universal coverage’ « Klein Online
    So much like what the intent of such a piece of crap as this supposed "ACA" is ultimately designed to do, you liberal/progressives seem to think that American's are stupid, and don't pick up on what is said or something....

    The bill was always meant to fail, in order to usher in the top down, centralized universal system...Even as American's overwhelmingly said that isn't what they wanted....And the groups that had the largest hand in crafting the lie, are the same radicals that have been lying to us all along....Van Jones, Soros, ACORN, etc....Communist, and radicals, and I can assure you that when this truth is fully revealed, hopefully it won't be too late to make sure that the scourge of progressivism, is driven back under the rock from which they slithered in 2008.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #190
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    Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    For the poor the cost of the doctor's visits simply isn't a concern since the old adage remains that you can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
    So any study which shows that people put off going to the Dr because of the cost is bull**** on its face?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    At the higher income levels the the savings for not buying insurance are greater than the out of pocket expenses for a doctors visit.
    I would be surprised if there were not some edge and corner cases whose calculations came out that way. But, I suspect that non-insignificant number people in those brackets already have a plan in place, like insurance, to handle their needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Let's look at someone making $80,000.
    Someone who currently has no established system, like a company insurance package, of meeting their needs and who makes $80k. I am sure that they are out there.
    But aren't they really corner cases?
    Are there really enough of these people for whom the best option is to forgo any sort of insurance, like company plans, in favor of penalties that they will crash the health care industry?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Without a change to the cost of the penalty I give them three years.
    Jan 2018?
    I may be wrong.

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