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A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107:233]

Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

That is a much different scenario than making a hormone tablet OTC, and giving young girls the ability to buy it whenever they want. Teenage girls are already stupid enough, and this is putting the responsibility of a serious decision, based on serious actions, into their already emotion-filled minds.

It is almost like you have a vision of individual girls buying cases of the stuff.


I a curious, do you think lack of availability of MAP will prevent the same girls from having sexual activity?
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

can be as safe as you like but condoms still split, the pill isn't 100% etc.

The pill has a very low failure rate. It all goes back to that stupidity thing I was referring to. Do something stupid, then say "Oh ****, what have I done?", then go and try to erase your stupidity. Unfortunately, stupidity persists no matter what you do to try and make up for it.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

well that's not how it works and unfortunately everyone else picks up the bill.

Which is why this needs to be changed.


Why Plan B only for rape? DO you consider the morning after pill a type of abortion?

Yes, I do see it as a means of terminating a potential pregnancy, regardless of how it may or may not work. I believe the time and place to stop a pregnancy is PRIOR to the impregnating act, not after.


so whats your solution, do you want the FDA to enforce their morals on the country, or mine or yours? you dont think its important to have the FDA test food and drugs?

Honestly, I don't want them enforcing anyone's morals because they should not exist as a Governmental agency to begin with. I could see them as a prvate entity which provided suggestions to the market and the public, but they have no legitimate mandate as a Governmental organization.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

I'm not quite sure why you're comparing surgical procedures to taking a pill that is safe enough to be sold over the counter. :confused:
Yup. Saccharine was quite popular, perfectly safe, and available at every restaurant at one time, as well. If you happened to develop Parkinson's as a result of it's use is just, well, unfortunate.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

It is almost like you have a vision of individual girls buying cases of the stuff.


I a curious, do you think lack of availability of MAP will prevent the same girls from having sexual activity?

You are apparently still not getting it. I don't think it should be OTC and available to ANYONE. The morning-after pill has a higher dose of progesterone than regular birth control pills do, and regular birth control pills require a prescription. This isn't an issue of slutty girls, or of preventing sexual behavior. It's an issue of medical incompetence to make this widely available and OTC.

Does this make my position clear?
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

Honestly, I don't want them enforcing anyone's morals because they should not exist as a Governmental agency to begin with. I could see them as a prvate entity which provided suggestions to the market and the public, but they have no legitimate mandate as a Governmental organization.

well thats good because they arent enforcing any morals and what you said is exactly what they do except they are government.
Me personal i want them government because they need to be IMO, they need to have that type of authority to over see drugs and food.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

we have no clue what he cares about but it most certainly is not his job to legislate his morals and in this case it goes against his morals too so im not sure of your point.

are you saying you want the FDA or Obama to enforce their morals, or yours, or mine?

Well, then let me explain. Its not "enforcing morals". Its about enabling what many would see as immorality. Its about better enabling a child, engaged in immorality (at least a few of us see a 13 year-old girl sexual active with her 17 year-old lover as such) to hide such from her folks.

That argument has been made throughout the thread. You must have missed it every time ............. :roll:
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

The pill has a very low failure rate. It all goes back to that stupidity thing I was referring to. Do something stupid, then say "Oh ****, what have I done?", then go and try to erase your stupidity. Unfortunately, stupidity persists no matter what you do to try and make up for it.

stupid is as stupid does
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

1.)Well, then let me explain.
2.)Its not "enforcing morals".
3.) Its about enabling what many would see as immorality.
4.) Its about better enabling a child, engaged in immorality (at least a few of us see a 13 year-old girl sexual active with her 17 year-old lover as such) to hide such from her folks.

5.)That argument has been made throughout the thread. You must have missed it every time ............. :roll:

1.) please do
2.) good because the FDA isnt about that
3.) FDA doesnt care about what you or I see as moral, its not their job, nor are they enabling
4.) this can already be done :shrug:

5.) no i didnt miss it i just understand its a super weak argument that rests on a foundation of hyperbole.

so whats the alternative, what do you suggest? The FDA is to makes sure drugs are safe, it did that, now what would you like to happen?
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

well thats good because they arent enforcing any morals and what you said is exactly what they do except they are government.
Me personal i want them government because they need to be IMO, they need to have that type of authority to over see drugs and food.

There is a significant issue in my mind with an agency which can FORCE food and drugs off the market, or allow them into the market to begin with. I definitely do not find any Constitutional authority or mandate for any such agency, which in my mind means that any such group should not be linked to the Government. I would be much more supportive of a PRIVATE organization which provided RECOMENDATIONS to the public on which food and drugs it felt were safe and/or self-regulating industry organizations which would police those groups without Government interference. My morals and values will always supercede anything the FDA (or any other Government agency) tell me I can/cannot and/or should/shouldn't eat, drink, medicate myself with, etc....
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

This story only goes to prove that some slippery slopes are more slippery than others.


Have these hormone supplements been tested on pre-pubescent girls? Because they will now be taking these drugs...

Thus is the demented mindset of the American culture... we fight like hell to get GMO corn out of the produce section of the grocery store while moving the morning after pill to the candy aisle.
 
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Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

1.) its 100% objective and now i dont advocate that. I advocate the FDA
doing their job and not making moral judgements but scientific and medical ones. Sorry you misunderstood.

2.) you are welcome to this opinion, many seem he gave up the fight cause it couldnt be won. Everybody has opinions

3.) again this is just your opinion supported by zero facts, not to mention me and the president do NOT agree so which is it?

4.) weird, so you think this BC will magically make all morals disappear and make everybody sluts and pimps. None of the other BCs do just this one. Yeah, that makes sense. AGain the FDA doesnt care about your morals or mine, they are meaningless, their job is the safety and effectiveness of the drug, they have no business pushing morals.

5.) more hyperbolic nonsense

6.) yes you are if you think the FDA should force your morals on others

FFS, who gives a rats ass about the FDA ?

Sorry, I tend to put my trust in long held ideological and ethical beliefs that PREVENT unwanted and pregnancy AND STD's.

The FDA is not my standard for anything really, let alone justification for the devolotion of our society.

Sorry you got so sucked into the premise, that the " Govt knows whats best" and that you need their approval to uphold your corrupted ideology and perpetuate your agenda.

And morals ? What are you Eleven years old ? They exist for a damn good reason, they're the product of thousands of years of societal ethos and guidelines that prevents stupid sh** like teenagers with STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

Society evolved to be as efficient and safe as possible and yes, that includes limiting unethical behaviour that spreads STDs and allows for unwanted pregnancies.

Oh but wait, the FDA says its ok.....how pathetically bereft of fundamental morays are you to look up to a Federal orginization for your answers when determining whats acceptable and whats not ?

It's like some people were literally raised by Chimpanzees and now the rest of society, who understands the benefit of self control, of character and ethics has to lower them selvesbto your corrupt standards because the fringe has the biggest mouths.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

1.)There is a significant issue in my mind with an agency which can FORCE food and drugs off the market, or allow them into the market to begin with.
2.) I definitely do not find any Constitutional authority or mandate for any such agency, which in my mind means that any such group should not be linked to the Government.
3.) I would be much more supportive of a PRIVATE organization which provided RECOMENDATIONS to the public on which food and drugs it felt were safe and/or self-regulating industry organizations which would police those groups without Government interference.
4.)My morals and values will always supercede anything the FDA (or any other Government agency) tell me I can/cannot and/or should/shouldn't eat, drink, medicate myself with, etc....

1.) no im fine with this as long as its science, health and medical reasons
2.) im still ok with it and would prefer it be government otherwise they dont have the resources/authority needed
3.) id never want a private firm and recommendations is exactly what the FDA does and without government they could never accomplish what they do.
4.) ok

who would run this organization?
what would give them the authority?
where would their money come from?
what would they base their testing on?
why would any drug and food companies listen to them?
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

FFS, who gives a rats ass about the FDA ?

2.)Sorry, I tend to put my trust in long held ideological and ethical beliefs that PREVENT unwanted and pregnancy AND STD's.

3.)The FDA is not my standard for anything really, let alone justification for the devolotion of our society.

4.) Sorry you got so sucked into the premise, that the " Govt knows whats best" and that you need their approval to uphold your corrupted ideology and perpetuate your agenda.

5.)And morals ? What are you Eleven years old ? They exist for a damn good reason, they're the product of thousands of years of societal ethos and guidelines that prevents stupid sh** like teenagers with STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

6.) Society evolved to be as efficient and safe as possible and yes, that includes limiting unethical behaviour that spreads STDs and allows for unwanted pregnancies.

7.)Oh but wait, the FDA says its ok.....how pathetically bereft of fundamental morays are you to look up to a Federal orginization for your answers when determining whats acceptable and whats not ?

8.)It's like some people were literally raised by Chimpanzees and now the rest of society, who understands the benefit of self control, of character and ethics has to lower them selvesbto your corrupt standards because the fringe has the biggest mouths.

1.) you do obviously
2.) ok that has nothing to do with this topic but ok, this does prevent unwanted pregnancies.
3.) good thing they arent factually responsible for the devolution our society then.
4.) wrong again but you are free to make up strawman has you please, they wont work but you are free to continue
5.) oooh failed insults now your posts are getting really desperate and emotional.
this doesnt affect your morals or my morals one bit you are still free to have them, another strawman
6.) this hasnt changed that
7.) wrong again and yet ANOTHER strawman, do you have any other arguments, real one based on facts or truths or even logic and reality.
the FDA didnt say anything was ok except the drug is safe. Please stop with the made up emotional strawmen.
8.) weird this doesnt effect my morals at all nor does it make me lower my personal standards

I must be unnaturally super strong in my believes, i mean how could i possible resist, if the FDA deemed something safe the amount of force and pressure thats puts on me is unfair, its biblical how much pressure is on me, its unbearable i must go do it now.

sorry im just not buying all this over emotion.

I understand if people dont agree, thats TOTALLY understandable but the FDA did nothing wrong nor will this make the world sex crazed zombies.

My morals are still intact.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

1.) no im fine with this as long as its science, health and medical reasons
2.) im still ok with it and would prefer it be government otherwise they dont have the resources/authority needed
3.) id never want a private firm and recommendations is exactly what the FDA does and without government they could never accomplish what they do.
4.) ok

1. I can't find any Constitutional mandate for the agency, so in my mind it should not exist, regardless of how much good it may do.
2. I don't believe the agency has any legitimate authority to begin with.
3. The FDA has the power to deny companies the ability to distribute their products in the USA. That's more than just a recommendation, and the agency "accomplishes" more than it should in my mind.

who would run this organization? what would give them the authority? where would their money come from? what would they base their testing on? why would any drug and food companies listen to them?

This would be a private company, like any other out there that makes recommendations on everything from restaurants to travel to cars. They would be a business, like any other. Initial capital would be outlaid by investors and income would be related to their research results. They would base their testing on whatever criteria they felt were relevant; whether it's scientific, moralistic, or otherwise. The goal of the company would be educating the PUBLIC, not regulating the food or drug companies.

You need to realize that when it comes to buying anything, I believe two words should always be at the forefront of one's mind..... CAVEAT EMPTOR.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

1. I can't find any Constitutional mandate for the agency, so in my mind it should not exist, regardless of how much good it may do.
2. I don't believe the agency has any legitimate authority to begin with.
3. The FDA has the power to deny companies the ability to distribute their products in the USA. That's more than just a recommendation, and the agency "accomplishes" more than it should in my mind.



4.)This would be a private company, like any other out there that makes recommendations on everything from restaurants to travel to cars.
They would be a business, like any other.
5.) Initial capital would be outlaid by investors and income would be related to their research results.
6.) They would base their testing on whatever criteria they felt were relevant; whether it's scientific, moralistic, or otherwise.
7.) The goal of the company would be educating the PUBLIC, not regulating the food or drug companies.

You need to realize that when it comes to buying anything, I believe two words should always be at the forefront of one's mind..... CAVEAT EMPTOR.

1.) hey if you say so and you are welcome to that opinion, i happen to disagree because of the good they do
2.) again you are welcome to that, im glad they are there
3.) seems i was told earlier in the thread they just make recommendations then somebody else acts, maybe that info was wrong? i didnt check it out becuse i didnt care nor did it matter to anything i was talking about at the time. DEA maybe?

4.) so some random company with no credentials or power
5.) why? why would people invest? are they going to make a profit somehow?
6.) this is a huge failure only science and health need be the concerns, morals should never be art of it.
7.) they cant objectively educating them unless they do not use morals and who would care what they say?
why would we listen
what happens when some drug or food kills 1000 or more people cause we have no FDA?
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

1.) hey if you say so and you are welcome to that opinion, i happen to disagree because of the good they do
2.) again you are welcome to that, im glad they are there
3.) seems i was told earlier in the thread they just make recommendations then somebody else acts, maybe that info was wrong? i didnt check it out becuse i didnt care nor did it matter to anything i was talking about at the time. DEA maybe?

1. Good, bad, indifferent - it's immaterial. It's an unConstitutional department, just like almost all of the others in the Federal Government and should not exist.
2. See #1.
3. I'm not 100% positive, but I'm fairly certain that the FDA sets the policy. I don't think they're the enforcement arm, but they DO set the policy.

4.) so some random company with no credentials or power
5.) why? why would people invest? are they going to make a profit somehow?
6.) this is a huge failure only science and health need be the concerns, morals should never be art of it.
7.) they cant objectively educating them unless they do not use morals and who would care what they say?
why would we listen
what happens when some drug or food kills 1000 or more people cause we have no FDA?

4. They would have no more or less credentials or legitimate power than the FDA does, at least in my mind.
5. Yes, there would be a profit. Just like Consumer Reports or any other group of that type.
6. Some of us see science as being a secondary concern to morals and values.
7. For the same reason people read Popular Mechanics, Car and Driver, Consumer Reports, etc....
8. If there is malfeasance then they are gone after under the standard business regulations. Again - CAVEAT EMPTOR.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

You are apparently still not getting it. I don't think it should be OTC and available to ANYONE. The morning-after pill has a higher dose of progesterone than regular birth control pills do, and regular birth control pills require a prescription. This isn't an issue of slutty girls, or of preventing sexual behavior. It's an issue of medical incompetence to make this widely available and OTC.

Does this make my position clear?

Progesterone is safe. So is Plan B. The only "medical incompetence" being demonstrated here is by those who insist that Plan B is dangerous.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

What a boon for the child sex trafficking industry. Ariel Castro could have benefitted greatly.

Wonder what the commercial name will be? "Child-B-Gone"?
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

Progesterone is safe. So is Plan B. The only "medical incompetence" being demonstrated here is by those who insist that Plan B is dangerous.

The progesterone prescription products that have been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) are safe for most people when used with the advice and care of a healthcare professional. However, progesterone can cause many side effects including stomach upset, changes in appetite, weight gain, fluid retention and swelling (edema), fatigue, acne, drowsiness or insomnia, allergic skin rashes, hives, fever, headache, depression, breast discomfort or enlargement, PMS-like syndrome, altered menstrual cycles, irregular bleeding, and other side effects.

Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Intravaginal progesterone gel is LIKELY SAFE when used as part of infertility treatment. But don’t use progesterone otherwise. It’s also best not to use progesterone if you are breast-feeding. Not enough is known about how it might affect a nursing infant.

Arterial disease: Don’t use progesterone if you have arterial disease.

Breast cancer: Avoid use unless you are directed to do so by your healthcare provider.

Depression: Get your healthcare provider’s advice first before using progesterone if you have major depression now or a history of major depression.

Liver disease: Progesterone might make liver disease worse. Don’t use it.

Vaginal bleeding: If you have undiagnosed vaginal bleeding, don’t use progesterone.
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

1. Good, bad, indifferent - it's immaterial. It's an unConstitutional department, just like almost all of the others in the Federal Government and should not exist.
2. See #1.
3. I'm not 100% positive, but I'm fairly certain that the FDA sets the policy. I don't think they're the enforcement arm, but they DO set the policy.



4. They would have no more or less credentials or legitimate power than the FDA does, at least in my mind.
5. Yes, there would be a profit. Just like Consumer Reports or any other group of that type.
6. Some of us see science as being a secondary concern to morals and values.
7. For the same reason people read Popular Mechanics, Car and Driver, Consumer Reports, etc....
8. If there is malfeasance then they are gone after under the standard business regulations. Again - CAVEAT EMPTOR.

1.) again you are free to that opinion i disagree and want them around
2.) see 1
3.) dont know but they need that power or access to that power regardless
4.) oh so a company of scientist and medical professionals?
5.) hell no i dont want them having profit thats an instant way to lead to corruption and where would this profit come from? how?
6.) that has nothgin to do with my statment. want a quick example? what if the morals they are using arent yours? then what? no thanks
7.) so you want a group that is in charge of preventing disaster, disease out break, mass poisoning etc to be based on the entertainment vallue of motor trend?
8.) so basically after a bunch of people die people can try to sue but they wont have anything hard core to sue by because theres no FDA now. They would just have to use the opinion of a company like motor trend?

yeah again no thanks, that type of system would be inane and dangerous
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill [W:107]

Who were they playing and did they cover the spread?

it was a forfeit because all the odds were against the other side
 
Re: A victory for the morning-after pill

The progesterone prescription products that have been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) are safe for most people when used with the advice and care of a healthcare professional. However, progesterone can cause many side effects including stomach upset, changes in appetite, weight gain, fluid retention and swelling (edema), fatigue, acne, drowsiness or insomnia, allergic skin rashes, hives, fever, headache, depression, breast discomfort or enlargement, PMS-like syndrome, altered menstrual cycles, irregular bleeding, and other side effects.

Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Intravaginal progesterone gel is LIKELY SAFE when used as part of infertility treatment. But don’t use progesterone otherwise. It’s also best not to use progesterone if you are breast-feeding. Not enough is known about how it might affect a nursing infant.

Arterial disease: Don’t use progesterone if you have arterial disease.

Breast cancer: Avoid use unless you are directed to do so by your healthcare provider.

Depression: Get your healthcare provider’s advice first before using progesterone if you have major depression now or a history of major depression.

Liver disease: Progesterone might make liver disease worse. Don’t use it.

Vaginal bleeding: If you have undiagnosed vaginal bleeding, don’t use progesterone.

Fatigue and acne!! Oh my!
 
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