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Chinese spaceship blasts off from Gobi Desert

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donsutherland1

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From CNN:

A Chinese spaceship blasted off Tuesday from a launch center in the Gobi Desert, carrying three astronauts on what is expected to be the Asian giant's longest crewed mission yet…

The U.S. closed its space shuttle program in 2011 and is no longer aggressively pursuing manned space exploration, leaving Russia and China as the only two countries in the world capable of independently sending humans into space.

Chinese spaceship blasts off from Gobi Desert - CNN.com

The contrast between China’s and the United States’ perspective on space is striking. It is almost an illustration of how rising powers seek to expand their opportunities, while status quo powers seek to harvest the fruits of their past legacy, sometimes putting them on a path of long retreat. Both paths are not compatible in the long-run.

Ultimately, the nation that seeks to expand its frontiers gains valuable experience and insights. That experience and insights increase the prospects of their achieving qualitative, even potentially disruptive, breakthroughs. Whether such breakthroughs could have commercial and/or military applications remains to be seen, but space is an area rich with both kinds of possibilities.
 
I'm fine with sending drones, robots, and machines into space. It seems not only can they do all that man does but based on the rover on Mars - even more. Life support of astronauts costs so much it limits our exploration.
 
Russia, and even US have quite few years before China would be able to catch on.
However, space always represented the ultimate frontier for humanity and only further manned (and unmanned) space exploration missions can produce ultimate role models and generate grand goals. Without these goals and heroes, US/Russia is in risk of becoming a nation of worms coasting on past glories to a very grim future.

Cheers,
Fallen.
 
donsutherland1 said:
From CNN:

A Chinese spaceship blasted off Tuesday from a launch center in the Gobi Desert, carrying three astronauts on what is expected to be the Asian giant's longest crewed mission yet…

The U.S. closed its space shuttle program in 2011 and is no longer aggressively pursuing manned space exploration, leaving Russia and China as the only two countries in the world capable of independently sending humans into space.

Chinese spaceship blasts off from Gobi Desert - CNN.com

The contrast between China’s and the United States’ perspective on space is striking. It is almost an illustration of how rising powers seek to expand their opportunities, while status quo powers seek to harvest the fruits of their past legacy, sometimes putting them on a path of long retreat. Both paths are not compatible in the long-run.

Ultimately, the nation that seeks to expand its frontiers gains valuable experience and insights. That experience and insights increase the prospects of their achieving qualitative, even potentially disruptive, breakthroughs. Whether such breakthroughs could have commercial and/or military applications remains to be seen, but space is an area rich with both kinds of possibilities.
Click to expand...

The Chinese are re-inacting the postwar history of the US in every way possible in a totalitarian state.. They studied it and found that it was the most successful method of making the population happy in world history. The Govt. believes that will keep them in power the longest. They are also now building a system of superhighways to serve the millions of cars that they envison will give the people mobility.
 
donsutherland1 said:
From CNN:

A Chinese spaceship blasted off Tuesday from a launch center in the Gobi Desert, carrying three astronauts on what is expected to be the Asian giant's longest crewed mission yet…

The U.S. closed its space shuttle program in 2011 and is no longer aggressively pursuing manned space exploration, leaving Russia and China as the only two countries in the world capable of independently sending humans into space.

Chinese spaceship blasts off from Gobi Desert - CNN.com

The contrast between China’s and the United States’ perspective on space is striking. It is almost an illustration of how rising powers seek to expand their opportunities, while status quo powers seek to harvest the fruits of their past legacy, sometimes putting them on a path of long retreat. Both paths are not compatible in the long-run.

Ultimately, the nation that seeks to expand its frontiers gains valuable experience and insights. That experience and insights increase the prospects of their achieving qualitative, even potentially disruptive, breakthroughs. Whether such breakthroughs could have commercial and/or military applications remains to be seen, but space is an area rich with both kinds of possibilities.
Click to expand...

Heya DS.
yo2.gif
Do you think the US letting Private industry taking the lead in Space is the Right thing to do, in order to push us further forward with matters in Space?

My only concern is that we are giving both the Russians and the Chinese first dibbs in the possibilities of coming across ET's or other life looking to encounter our planet.
satellite.png
 
MMC said:
Heya DS.
yo2.gif
Do you think the US letting Private industry taking the lead in Space is the Right thing to do, in order to push us further forward with matters in Space?

My only concern is that we are giving both the Russians and the Chinese first dibbs in the possibilities of coming across ET's or other life looking to encounter our planet.
satellite.png
Click to expand...

Actually the Russian space program is in pretty much the same state as US's (if not in worse) - no new technologies are being produced, rockets explode, satellites fail to work, billions are lost to fraud and bureaucratic corruption. :(

Cheers,
Fallen.
 
Fallenangel said:
Actually the Russian space program is in pretty much the same state as US's (if not in worse) - no new technologies are being produced, rockets explode, satellites fail to work, billions are lost to fraud and bureaucratic corruption. :(

Cheers,
Fallen.
Click to expand...

Heya FA. :2wave: I think we are being mislead. We might be aware of some things they are doing. But I doubt anything that is of a real value yet. As the Russians are on track to put a Hotel up in Space for 2016. Course the Russians did release how much it would cost to go. Still there is not much any can do in Space. Can't smoke, Cant drink Alcohol, Can't take Drugs, Cant have sex, truly there is not much they can do but watch TV and get on the internet. But it is a step forward in moving towards a base being built on the moon with a structure that that will allow Humans to be able to function as they do now and even with their vices. Evidenced.

Russia will build world’s first space hotel ......

Russia’s space program seems do be doing quite well, which is more than we can say about other countries at the moment; they recently announced plans to build a hotel in space.

space-hotel-1.jpg


According to the released plans, the hotel will orbit 217 miles above ground, and it will be able to host 7 guests in 4 different rooms, all of which will have great views of… the Earth. Of course, the stay won’t be for everybody – a five day vacation at the hotel will cost £350,000.

space-hotel2.jpg


space-hotel-3.jpg


The Commercial Space station, as the hotel will be officially called will open in 2016. Even though if it will be more suited for tourists than the International Space Station, visitors can still expect sealed showers and the usual space food. Alcohol will be firmly prohibited, and even though they didn’t make it quite clear, I presume drugs will be too; also, visitors might be getting some unexpected guests – astronauts from the ISS using the hotel as an emergency. But the hotel won’t only host tourists.

“The hotel will be aimed at wealthy individuals and people working for private companies who want to do research in space.”

Russia will build world's first space hotel
 
Orbital Technologies for Russia is responsible.....first Tourist by 2017. But they will have others before then setting it all up.
tinfoil.gif




veil of secrecy has been pulled away to lay bare plans for a space hotel 350 km above Earth to serve wealthy private travelers. The Commercial Space Station is expected to welcome its first guests in 2016. The company Russian Orbital Technologies announced plans to launch a space hotel almost a year ago, in September 2010 -- and now the price-list for the trip has finally been disclosed. A voyage to the space hotel will not be exactly a budget vacation -- a five-day stay at the hotel is expected to cost about US$ 160,000/day. The whole trip, including a two-day transfer to the CSS on the Soyuz space ship will strip your wallet of about US$ 800,000.....snip~

 
MMC said:
Heya FA. :2wave: I think we are being mislead. We might be aware of some things they are doing. But I doubt anything that is of a real value yet. As the Russians are on track to put a Hotel up in Space for 2016. Course the Russians did release how much it would cost to go. Still there is not much any can do in Space. Can't smoke, Cant drink Alcohol, Can't take Drugs, Cant have sex, truly there is not much they can do but watch TV and get on the internet. But it is a step forward in moving towards a base being built on the moon with a structure that that will allow Humans to be able to function as they do now and even with their vices. Evidenced.

Russia will build world’s first space hotel ......

Russia’s space program seems do be doing quite well, which is more than we can say about other countries at the moment; they recently announced plans to build a hotel in space.

space-hotel-1.jpg


According to the released plans, the hotel will orbit 217 miles above ground, and it will be able to host 7 guests in 4 different rooms, all of which will have great views of… the Earth. Of course, the stay won’t be for everybody – a five day vacation at the hotel will cost £350,000.

space-hotel2.jpg


space-hotel-3.jpg


The Commercial Space station, as the hotel will be officially called will open in 2016. Even though if it will be more suited for tourists than the International Space Station, visitors can still expect sealed showers and the usual space food. Alcohol will be firmly prohibited, and even though they didn’t make it quite clear, I presume drugs will be too; also, visitors might be getting some unexpected guests – astronauts from the ISS using the hotel as an emergency. But the hotel won’t only host tourists.

“The hotel will be aimed at wealthy individuals and people working for private companies who want to do research in space.”

Russia will build world's first space hotel
Click to expand...

Hey MMC :2wave:

Sorry, but this doesn't really impress me much due to few reasons;
a. The Russians as the Americans constantly promise to build stations, send people to Mars/Moon, so on and so on... However, a lot of these promises end up with nothing substantial.
b. No new technologies or developments are involved in building such "station" - this new module simply looks like an elongated Soyuz module.

Moreover, it is hard to find factual information online regarding this but here is only a taste of the actual situation with the Russian space program;
2010:
# "Proton-M" launch failure - December 2010

2011:
# "Rokot" failure to reach orbit - 01.02.2011
# "Proton-M" failure to reach orbit - 18.08.2011
# Soyuz Rocket launch failure - 24.08.2011
# "Zenith 2SB" failure to reach orbit - 09.11.2011
# Soyuz Rocket launch failure - 23.12.2011

2012:
# "Proton-M" launch failure - 06.08.2012
# "Proton-M" orbit reaching failure - 08.08.2012

2013:
# "Zenith 3SL" launch failure - February 2013

And this doesn't take in account various military rockets/satellites launch failures (though "Rokot" is one of them), and the uncovered corruption and theft in the Russian Space program.

The Russian space program is unfortunately has a lot of problems and no one knows how or when it's going to recover (if at all).

Cheers,
Fallen.
 
Fallenangel said:
Hey MMC :2wave:

Sorry, but this doesn't really impress me much due to few reasons;
a. The Russians as the Americans constantly promise to build stations, send people to Mars/Moon, so on and so on... However, a lot of these promises end up with nothing substantial.
b. No new technologies or developments are involved in building such "station" - this new module simply looks like an elongated Soyuz module.

Moreover, it is hard to find factual information online regarding this but here is only a taste of the actual situation with the Russian space program;
2010:
# "Proton-M" launch failure - December 2010

2011:
# "Rokot" failure to reach orbit - 01.02.2011
# "Proton-M" failure to reach orbit - 18.08.2011
# Soyuz Rocket launch failure - 24.08.2011
# "Zenith 2SB" failure to reach orbit - 09.11.2011
# Soyuz Rocket launch failure - 23.12.2011

2012:
# "Proton-M" launch failure - 06.08.2012
# "Proton-M" orbit reaching failure - 08.08.2012

2013:
# "Zenith 3SL" launch failure - February 2013

And this doesn't take in account various military rockets/satellites launch failures (though "Rokot" is one of them), and the uncovered corruption and theft in the Russian Space program.

The Russian space program is unfortunately has a lot of problems and no one knows how or when it's going to recover (if at all).

Cheers,
Fallen.
Click to expand...

It may not impress you.....but it is far more impressive than what we have come with up yet. Other than an Idea. Moreover the US has many failures too. Yet like us the Soviets are constantly launching Satellites into Space. Any reason why we don't get word of all those launches? Or why we don't find out until after the fact?

The Russians are launching 4 Sats this year.

Russia Set to Launch 4 GLONASS Satellites This Year.....

PLESETSK, June 8 (RIA Novosti) - Russia plans to launch for more satellites for the GLONASS navigation system by the end of this year, the Aerospace Defense Forces head said on Saturday.

“Three GLONASS satellites are scheduled to be launched on board of a Proton carrier rocket in July from the Baikonur space center and another one is planned to be launched in December from the Plesetsk space center,” Maj. Gen. Alexander Golovko said.

The most recent launch of the GLONASS satellite took place on April 26, when a Soyuz 2-1b rocket blasted off from the Plesetsk space center to orbit a GLONASS-M satellite.

The Global Navigation Satellite System (Glonass), which was officially launched in 1993, is Russia’s answer to the US Global Positioning System (GPS). It provides data for real-time positioning and speed of surface, sea and air objects to within an accuracy of one meter.

The 24 satellites comprising the system had been put into orbit by 2010, though only after several costly malfunctions and launch failures by carrier rockets. The program has cost 140 billion rubles ($4.4 billion) to implement to date, and its budget for 2012-2020 stands at a further 326 billion rubles ($10 billion).....snip~

Russia Set to Launch 4 GLONASS Satellites This Year | Science | RIA Novosti


157254504.jpg


GLONASS, Russia

Note the failures were counted. But they still implemented their offset to US GPS. Despite all that adversity. ;)
 
Fallenangel said:
Russia, and even US have quite few years before China would be able to catch on.
However, space always represented the ultimate frontier for humanity and only further manned (and unmanned) space exploration missions can produce ultimate role models and generate grand goals. Without these goals and heroes, US/Russia is in risk of becoming a nation of worms coasting on past glories to a very grim future.

Cheers,
Fallen.
Click to expand...

I agree. China very likely won't become an "equal" with the U.S. or Russia in the near-term or medium-term, even as I expect that the gap will narrow.
 
MMC said:
It may not impress you.....but it is far more impressive than what we have come with up yet. Other than an Idea. Moreover the US has many failures too. Yet like us the Soviets are constantly launching Satellites into Space. Any reason why we don't get word of all those launches? Or why we don't find out until after the fact?

The Russians are launching 4 Sats this year.

Russia Set to Launch 4 GLONASS Satellites This Year.....

PLESETSK, June 8 (RIA Novosti) - Russia plans to launch for more satellites for the GLONASS navigation system by the end of this year, the Aerospace Defense Forces head said on Saturday.

“Three GLONASS satellites are scheduled to be launched on board of a Proton carrier rocket in July from the Baikonur space center and another one is planned to be launched in December from the Plesetsk space center,” Maj. Gen. Alexander Golovko said.

The most recent launch of the GLONASS satellite took place on April 26, when a Soyuz 2-1b rocket blasted off from the Plesetsk space center to orbit a GLONASS-M satellite.

The Global Navigation Satellite System (Glonass), which was officially launched in 1993, is Russia’s answer to the US Global Positioning System (GPS). It provides data for real-time positioning and speed of surface, sea and air objects to within an accuracy of one meter.

The 24 satellites comprising the system had been put into orbit by 2010, though only after several costly malfunctions and launch failures by carrier rockets. The program has cost 140 billion rubles ($4.4 billion) to implement to date, and its budget for 2012-2020 stands at a further 326 billion rubles ($10 billion).....snip~

Russia Set to Launch 4 GLONASS Satellites This Year | Science | RIA Novosti


157254504.jpg


GLONASS, Russia

Note the failures were counted. But they still implemented their offset to US GPS. Despite all that adversity. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of the "GLONASS" system, it is an old Soviet development that is being continued by the Russian Military and space agency till these days - it doesn't represent anything new, so is that "space hotel".
We are talking about an actual contemporary space program and developments by the Russian space agency - and there are very few of those and they are very inefficient cost to value wise.

Cheers,
Fallen.
 
MMC said:
Heya DS.
yo2.gif
Do you think the US letting Private industry taking the lead in Space is the Right thing to do, in order to push us further forward with matters in Space?

My only concern is that we are giving both the Russians and the Chinese first dibbs in the possibilities of coming across ET's or other life looking to encounter our planet.
satellite.png
Click to expand...

I like and support the idea of the private sector's involvement. However, the interests of the private sector and those of the public sector are not necessarily identical when it comes to space. The private sector's focus will very likely be on building/improving the capabilities necessary to be profitable e.g., to build a viable space tourism industry, etc. That focus does not assure that broader investment/financing of basic research will take place. Yet, it is basic research, sometimes with very long time horizons, that can be pivotal to advancing scientific understanding which, in turn, can lead to commercial and military innovations that might not otherwise have been possible.
 


 
Last edited:
iguanaman said:
The Chinese are re-inacting the postwar history of the US in every way possible in a totalitarian state.. They studied it and found that it was the most successful method of making the population happy in world history. The Govt. believes that will keep them in power the longest. They are also now building a system of superhighways to serve the millions of cars that they envison will give the people mobility.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's almost like China is putting on the spectacle of Americana, as seen through the eyes of a one-party system faced with a restive population that could at any moment explode. Surreal.

But a modern, technologically advanced China is generally good for the world. An educated population of over 1 billion people who have access to modern science, engineering, architecture, art will produce God knows what progress for themselves and the rest of the world.
 
Just think, if the Tea Party and the lunatic austerity-fetish GOP had their way, the US would never have had a space program and never have gone to the moon.

The real impediment to America's future, the next "moonshot" -- whether in developing new energy or nanotechnology or genetic research -- is conservatism and its hatred of our democratic government.
 
donsutherland1 said:
From CNN:

A Chinese spaceship blasted off Tuesday from a launch center in the Gobi Desert, carrying three astronauts on what is expected to be the Asian giant's longest crewed mission yet…

The U.S. closed its space shuttle program in 2011 and is no longer aggressively pursuing manned space exploration, leaving Russia and China as the only two countries in the world capable of independently sending humans into space.

Chinese spaceship blasts off from Gobi Desert - CNN.com

The contrast between China’s and the United States’ perspective on space is striking. It is almost an illustration of how rising powers seek to expand their opportunities, while status quo powers seek to harvest the fruits of their past legacy, sometimes putting them on a path of long retreat. Both paths are not compatible in the long-run.

Ultimately, the nation that seeks to expand its frontiers gains valuable experience and insights. That experience and insights increase the prospects of their achieving qualitative, even potentially disruptive, breakthroughs. Whether such breakthroughs could have commercial and/or military applications remains to be seen, but space is an area rich with both kinds of possibilities.
Click to expand...

Totally misinformed opinion, because the premise on which it's based is completely false.

The term "nation" no longer refers to a single, unified entity whose people share a value system. In the modern world, a nation is nothing more than a political division bounded by territory, and represents one of many properties ultimately owned and controlled by wealthy individuals for the purpose of advancing their objectives.

This is not the 1960s. There is no us and them, anymore.

There is only the wealthy and the irrelevant common-folk still deluded enough to think that their government in any way, shape, or form, reflects their values or even bothers to try. Then again, maintaining the illusion of unity is an effective form of propoganda, i. e. it's good for people to think "we spy on ourselves."
 
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