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Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

Geoist said:
The US government lies to us every day. Why should Snowden trust them?
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the problem with this line of thinking is that anarchy, and mob rule seem to be what you think will remedy this, it isn't....
 
I thought Mr. Snowden was changing planes in Moscow. What happened?
 
wbcoleman said:
I thought Mr. Snowden was changing planes in Moscow. What happened?
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He flew to a country with an intelligence apparatus that would be very, very, very interested in what else he may know.. a country that wants leverage to get the US to back off Syria...

They have a version of the CIA too... only not nearly as nice...

What happened, indeed...
 
Occam's Razor said:
He flew to a country with an intelligence apparatus that would be very, very, very interested in what else he may know.. a country that wants leverage to get the US to back off Syria...

They have a version of the CIA too... only not nearly as nice...

What happened, indeed...
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Who knew???
 
Occam's Razor said:
He flew to a country with an intelligence apparatus that would be very, very, very interested in what else he may know.. a country that wants leverage to get the US to back off Syria...

They have a version of the CIA too... only not nearly as nice...

What happened, indeed...
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The last Wiki leaks of a few years ago was supposed to be even bigger than this and what happened? Not a great deal it seems.

Of course that may not be the case this time but perhaps members of the government just don't like being embarrassed.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
I didn't say they liked. I don't think the majority of the world cares.
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If they don't care then they don't matter. But majority opinion tends to be a negative one.


But I'm very curious as to why you brought it up in any way, shape, or form if you admit it has nothing to do with the situation whatsoever.
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I was responding to another poster. Please read.

He was asking why would Snowden go to countries that hate us and I pointed out that most of the world hates us so his point is moot.

That was what I was driving at.
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Maybe if you thought my response was off-topic you should not have responded to it.
 
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OldWorldOrder said:
lol?

You guys are talking in absolute statements and my laughing at you is the problem in this conversation? Interesting.
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You said:
Why would they have an extradition agreement with the US if they all hate the US? That's weird.

I gave an example on why your presumption was false. Understand now?
 
j-mac said:
the problem with this line of thinking is that anarchy, and mob rule seem to be what you think will remedy this, it isn't....
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If exposing government corruption and abuses is "anarchy"/"mob rule" then I am all for it.
 
Geoist said:
If they don't care then they don't matter. But majority opinion tends to be a negative one.




I was responding to another poster. Please read.

He was asking why would Snowden go to countries that hate us and I pointed out that most of the world hates us so his point is moot.



Maybe if you thought my response was off-topic you should not have responded to it.
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So you didn't understand that he meant governments? That's some poor critical thinking.
 
Geoist said:
If exposing government corruption and abuses is "anarchy"/"mob rule" then I am all for it.
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Then you are not a Libertarian of any kind sir. The "mob" doesn't recognize liberty. But to the further point, It's not like Snowden flew to Ecuador, or say Sweeden, you know a relatively neutral country. No, he flew China, then Russia, both countries that would be very interested in what he has, and would be more than happy to embarrass the US with it.

In truth I am torn about this one....I realize the value of exposing the government for what they are doing to us in secret, but I don't condone siding with our enemies to do it. He crossed a line, and now has to pay the price.
 
j-mac said:
Then you are not a Libertarian of any kind sir. The "mob" doesn't recognize liberty. But to the further point, It's not like Snowden flew to Ecuador, or say Sweeden, you know a relatively neutral country. No, he flew China, then Russia, both countries that would be very interested in what he has, and would be more than happy to embarrass the US with it.

In truth I am torn about this one....I realize the value of exposing the government for what they are doing to us in secret, but I don't condone siding with our enemies to do it. He crossed a line, and now has to pay the price.
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If China is our enemy, how is it that we do so much trade with them? How is it that our enemy holds such a large piece of our debt? If they are an enemy, why are so many american companies doing business with them? Why is it that our enemy will again buy a huge chunk of government securities this year?
 
How long is Snowden's Moscow layover going to last?
 
wbcoleman said:
How long is Snowden's Moscow layover going to last?
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Longer than he anticipated.

Sounds like he was stupid enough to have 4 laptops and numerous thumb drives with him with all of his 'secrets'.

I doubt the Russians are letting him go anywhere too soon - until they get what he has.

He was stupid to have his information with him, as opposed to stashed elsewhere.

Big mistake.
 
j-mac said:
Then you are not a Libertarian of any kind sir. The "mob" doesn't recognize liberty.
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I was talking tongue-in-cheek. Of course I don't support mob rule. Why do you think I put it in quotes?


But to the further point, It's not like Snowden flew to Ecuador, or say Sweeden, you know a relatively neutral country. No, he flew China, then Russia, both countries that would be very interested in what he has, and would be more than happy to embarrass the US with it.
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That does not mean he supports what those governments do, just that going to those places first was a temporary move in order to avoid US extradition.

In truth I am torn about this one....I realize the value of exposing the government for what they are doing to us in secret, but I don't condone siding with our enemies to do it. He crossed a line, and now has to pay the price.
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As far as we know, he has not given any sensitive information to those governments.
 
Geoist said:
As far as we know, he has not given any sensitive information to those governments.
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The man is a traitor and untrustworthy. Given that he admitted to taking the job to expose secrets voluntarily what makes you think he won't do so under duress from a country like Moscow?
 
Henry David said:
If China is our enemy, how is it that we do so much trade with them? How is it that our enemy holds such a large piece of our debt? If they are an enemy, why are so many american companies doing business with them? Why is it that our enemy will again buy a huge chunk of government securities this year?
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Are you under the illusion that China is an ally?
 
Geoist said:
I was talking tongue-in-cheek. Of course I don't support mob rule. Why do you think I put it in quotes?
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Ok, I'll take your word for that.

That does not mean he supports what those governments do, just that going to those places first was a temporary move in order to avoid US extradition.
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There are plenty of places that he could have gone...United Arab Emirates comes to mind....

The consensus in international law is that a state does not have any obligation to surrender an alleged criminal to a foreign state, because one principle of sovereignty is that every state has legal authority over the people within its borders.

Extradition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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As far as we know, he has not given any sensitive information to those governments.
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Really?

Edward Snowden makes new claims about American hacking in China - CBS News Video

And during the meeting between the US and China....huh...yeah, ok.
 
TheNextEra said:
The man is a traitor and untrustworthy. Given that he admitted to taking the job to expose secrets voluntarily what makes you think he won't do so under duress from a country like Moscow?
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Moscow is a country now? Damn! When the USSR broke up, it really broke up!
 
TheNextEra said:
The man is a traitor and untrustworthy. Given that he admitted to taking the job to expose secrets voluntarily what makes you think he won't do so under duress from a country like Moscow?
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Considering that Snowden disclosed classified information ("hacking" against China and Hong Kong) and methods (targeting network infrastructure), both of which had absolutely nothing to do with domestic surveillance concerning U.S. citizens, it's probably more likely than not that he has voluntarily shared the contents of his laptops and thumb drives with the Chinese and Russian intelligence agencies. Duress probably wasn't required. The more that has been revealed, the more it appears that his early disclosure of the domestic surveillance was little more than a smokescreen to disguise a larger intention to inflict as much damage against U.S. interests as possible. Hopefully, he will eventually be apprehended, brought to justice, and held fully accountable for his actions.
 
donsutherland1 said:
Considering that Snowden disclosed classified information ("hacking" against China and Hong Kong) and methods (targeting network infrastructure), both of which had absolutely nothing to do with domestic surveillance concerning U.S. citizens, it's probably more likely than not that he has voluntarily shared the contents of his laptops and thumb drives with the Chinese and Russian intelligence agencies. Duress probably wasn't required. The more that has been revealed, the more it appears that his early disclosure of the domestic surveillance was little more than a smokescreen to disguise a larger intention to inflict as much damage against U.S. interests as possible. Hopefully, he will eventually be apprehended, brought to justice, and held fully accountable for his actions.
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Just going out on a limb here.. but I KNEW our gov't was hacking China and many other countries by targeting their infrastructure long before Snowden... I'm pretty sure China was already aware of it as well. So while you chase baseless assumptions, I'll be more interested to see if we hold Our government accountable for it's actions. And even more interested to see if the American zombie lemmings... I mean citizens will finally stand up and put a stop to this gradual slide down the slippery slope leading to secret police and Stasi tactics.
 
Occam's Razor said:
Just going out on a limb here.. but I KNEW our gov't was hacking China and many other countries by targeting their infrastructure long before Snowden... I'm pretty sure China was already aware of it as well. So while you chase baseless assumptions, I'll be more interested to see if we hold Our government accountable for it's actions. And even more interested to see if the American zombie lemmings... I mean citizens will finally stand up and put a stop to this gradual slide down the slippery slope leading to secret police and Stasi tactics.
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Not to saw off your limb, but that isn't the benchmark. Where does it say that it is unlawful to reveal classified information, unless you feel it is known, or suspected?
 
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