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Thread: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Three clear cut examples of why this country is heading for nothing but darker days. Shame on the three of you, and any one else that condones and agrees with them. ****ing ridiculous is what it is.
    You don't have to like it - but this program had all three branches of government input to it, meaning that it had passed the bar for legality. I understand if you disagree with Snowden's logic that it shouldn't be, but that does not put you in the position of being able to call down shame or anything else on those who point that out to you. It is not Snowden's right to overturn our system of self-government because he does not like the conclusion it has come to.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You don't have to like it - but this program had all three branches of government input to it, meaning that it had passed the bar for legality. I understand if you disagree with Snowden's logic that it shouldn't be, but that does not put you in the position of being able to call down shame or anything else on those who point that out to you. It is not Snowden's right to overturn our system of self-government because he does not like the conclusion it has come to.
    And that is supposed to be comforting? I mean, how many people across the three branches did it take to ram the Affordable Care Act through our system of government? Simply because it is on the books as law does not make it Constitutional. The same goes with torture. They made that legal too. Simply put, if they want to, they can make just about anything legal. Doesn't mean it is right, just or Constitutional, and I think everyone knows that that frequents this message board. And I think condoning the overreach of government is just as wrong as the government overreaching.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The banner of the slide on Drudge Report was TS/SI/ORCON/NOFORN. So... yeah.
    Not surprising. I doubt NSA deals with much below TS.







    He may have had understandable or honorable intentions. That doesn't make the act itself right.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    And that is supposed to be comforting?
    yes. Government is force, it is coercion, it is the use of the threat of violence against your neighbor to force him (and you) to live together somewhat peaceably. All goverment power is thus subject to the possibility of incredible abuse against the people. Think about it: the government of the US has more and better weapons than anyone else on the planet and you are worried about them intercepting your pizza order?

    The way we protect ourselves is through the balance of power, the use of checks and balances, the setting of faction against faction. That is how we keep government from being used to abuse us. Many of us often disagree with the particulars of decisions reached in compromises between those factions, and so we have regular elections to allow ourselves to change the mix.

    I mean, how many people across the three branches did it take to ram the Affordable Care Act through our system of government?
    Enough - and then in 2012 enough people voted to keep it there, too. I don't like it - in fact I think it's insane. But it is the law, and I don't get to overturn an election simply because it upsets me.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Not surprising. I doubt NSA deals with much below TS.
    Well, any SI caveat is usually enough to mandate storage above the stringency of SIPR (in case you are worried, I am actually sitting here with a textbook next to me making sure that that is unclass).

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The banner of the slide on Drudge Report was TS/SI/ORCON/NOFORN. So... yeah.

    He may have had understandable or honorable intentions. That doesn't make the act itself right.
    Let's make one thing perfectly damn clear: the government has no ****ing business spying on the international cellphone calls of Americans who are under no suspicion of criminal or terrorist activity.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes. Government is force, it is coercion, it is the use of the threat of violence against your neighbor to force him (and you) to live together somewhat peaceably. All goverment power is thus subject to the possibility of incredible abuse against the people. Think about it: the government of the US has more and better weapons than anyone else on the planet and you are worried about them intercepting your pizza order?

    The way we protect ourselves is through the balance of power, the use of checks and balances, the setting of faction against faction. That is how we keep government from being used to abuse us. Many of us often disagree with the particulars of decisions reached in compromises between those factions, and so we have regular elections to allow ourselves to change the mix.
    Are you against civil disobedience in all cases?

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Are you against civil disobedience in all cases?
    .......no. I wouldn't say that I am capable at this point of providing final judgement on the program or snowden. I would point out that a critical part of civil disobedience is that you be willing to experience the punishment for your actions because of your beliefs in the higher moral truth of your cause. If you wish to protest and disobey the law, you go to jail to do so. Snowden appears unwilling to do so.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Are you against civil disobedience in all cases?
    This wasn't civil disobedience, this was tantamount to treason.
    Zionism is the National Liberation Movement of the Jewish People.

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    Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    .......no. I wouldn't say that I am capable at this point of providing final judgement on the program or snowden. I would point out that a critical part of civil disobedience is that you be willing to experience the punishment for your actions because of your beliefs in the higher moral truth of your cause. Snowden appears unwilling to do so.
    That is a good point. I’ll give him a little slack, though, since he actually outed himself. He may be staying outside our jurisdiction so he can ensure his side of the story is heard. Or there may be some ulterior motive. We’ll have to see how it plays out.

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